Justin Egliskis is a personal trainer, coach, and host of the podcast Energy Alignment for Entrepreneurs. We discuss identity, vulnerability, cultural communication, self-discovery, and the power of storytelling in building authentic relationships.
Book a consultation with Justin!
Follow Energy Alignment for Entrepreneurs' Podcast on: YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts.
Support the Show
If you enjoy this show, please share it with at least one other person. If you would like to get episodes early, exclusive merch, and other benefits, consider supporting In The Keep on Patreon or... If you're not a fan of our other support methods, but do wanna support the show, buying me a book is a great way to do so. If you do, please let me know so that I can ensure that you are rewarded! Also... Follow us on X and join our official Discord ;) - Tyler
Book Recommendations
Chapters
00:00 Start
2:09 Life Lessons from Travel
4:41 The Spiral Dynamics Concept
11:30 Assertiveness in Communication
16:07 Navigating Business Dynamics
25:06 The Role of Discipline
36:27 Recognizing Signs and Symbols
48:44 The Essence of Helping Others
58:55 The Nature of Spiritual Growth
1:12:00 The Importance of Being Present
1:17:20 Understanding the Signs Around Us
1:23:45 The Wisdom of Ancient Teachings
1:47:43 The Journey of Self-Discovery
2:03:10 The Power of Symbols
2:29:38 The Art of Communication
2:44:54 Finding Balance in Life
Transcript
Tyler:
[0:00] He had been told by his parents and grandparents that he must fall in love and
Tyler:
[0:04] really know a person before becoming committed. But maybe people who felt that way have never learned the universal language. Because when you know that language, it's easy to understand that someone in the world awaits you, whether it's in the middle of the desert or in some great city. And when two such people encounter each other and their eyes meet, the past and the future become unimportant. There is only that moment in the incredible certainty that everything under the sun has been written by one hand only. It is the hand that evokes love and creates a twin soul for every person in the world. Without such love, one's dreams would have no meaning. Maktoub In Arabic that means, It is written.
Tyler:
[0:52] From The Alchemist by Paulo Aranjou
Music:
[0:55] Music
Justin:
[1:27] Fact that you've traveled all across or not all across the world but you've been many different places except for the northeast and I was just curious to hear a little bit about your travels oh.
Tyler:
[1:38] Yeah well I mean I didn't I didn't do a lot of traveling outside of the southeast as a kid we just didn't do that you know most people never like leave their region I would say um I probably did more than some of my friends did you know just go into different states and visiting family any visiting around. So I went to Tennessee, North Carolina, Texas, you know, the Southeast, Florida, all that area.
Tyler:
[2:05] And it wasn't until I joined the Air Force that I got to see more of the country. So then I immediately went to California and then I was in Arizona for a long time. And, you know, during those years, I traveled all around the country just for the sake of doing so. And then when I got out of the military, I took a job and I was in Europe for a couple of years so i went all over europe too i went to the uk i went i lived in denmark but i went to sweden i went to the czech republic to austria germany um so i've seen a fair slice of the world i just never had any particular reason to be in new england that's all that's the only reason i'd love to it'd be great i just haven't had the opportunity that presented itself along my path yeah
Justin:
[2:53] And and immediately when you mentioned going out of the country with the air force and going to the czech republic and europe um what would you say was like
Justin:
[3:04] the biggest sort of lessons maybe surprises um that you came across i'm genuine i'm curious.
Tyler:
[3:12] It's gonna sound so generic But I mean, the the the similarities between people everywhere are real, like because people always say people are the same everywhere, but they're different, I guess, would be a good way to start. For me, the culture shock of realizing that not everyone like America, Americans are kind of known for being very straightforward and like we'll talk to people, especially in the South, I would say even more so. We'll just talk to people in public that we don't know and tend to be quite straightforward. People in Scandinavia are not like that at all. They don't like it. They find it intrusive and weird. So that was a huge culture shock for me. On the other hand, I would say that in general, people everywhere want the same things in terms of They want to be loved. They want to have friends. They want to move forward in their careers. They want to have adventures in life. Those motivations are, I think, intrinsically human, whereas cultural things like how people talk to each other can be wildly different. But if you know how to say thank you, if you can express gratitude, I think you can pretty much get by anywhere. You just have to learn whatever their local word is for, like, thanks, I love you, dos mas cervezas por favor, whatever you need to say to get by.
Justin:
[4:41] And that point that you bring up with the speaking to the Scandinavians and their sort of cultural difference being not the same as America, where we're always kind of just, I mean, of course, you have introverts and extroverts, people who are quiet, people who are loud in America. But that that's intriguing have you ever came across the concept of spiral dynamics i've.
Tyler:
[5:14] Heard the term but i couldn't define it for you if you ask me to right now what does that mean it
Justin:
[5:18] Was something that like opened up my mind from a man named leah gura and it's kind of an understanding of maybe levels of awareness if you will and how i have some friends in Africa and they've told me stories of like, you know, at one point you can have a man in America living in Boston, not lock your door at night. And that's just the reality of the situation. You just know you're not going to get like broken in on. But in Africa, they'll have like, you know, bars over their windows, like three, four, like metal, all this sort of.
Justin:
[6:01] And that's kind of due to this concept of right in different countries, different cultures, everyone kind of was raised in these different ways. And it just intrigues me to kind of like find yourself in that situation where you maybe want to talk to someone on the street. Like you feel like you want to throw them a compliment because I'm very much like that. I'll just speak to anyone and everyone. If they're doing something that I resonate with or I find attractive, I'll be like, hey, what's up? Nice. Well done. Like your curly hair, et cetera. And so just I guess I find that really intriguing how.
Justin:
[6:51] Humans are all the same, like you're saying. Inherently, we all have that human design. We want to be heard, understood, and have connection with others. But I just find that interesting.
Tyler:
[7:05] You know how at the end of your podcast you always say, I love you, I really love you, I care about you, all that stuff? If you were on the streets of Copenhagen, maybe not Copenhagen because it's more multicultural, let's say you're in Aarhus, somewhere in Denmark, and you just like told a random person like hey man i love you it's not that they would like it's not that it's directly offensive to to express love it's just that the fact that you did that is it would never happen if you weren't from somewhere else like they don't do that um
Tyler:
[7:40] So like what i i was told you know kind of upon arrival like hey you know people don't like that kind of shit but what i learned is that they actually tend to respond well to it it's just unexpected whereas in america you know if you're like hey man love that curly hair dude's gonna be like hey you're looking good too bro like you know appreciate it and you may not have any first relationship beyond that um and i think um to northern europeans in general they find that that's a very shallow relationship which i understand it's a good critique they'll say like you know you Americans you always go around and you say like what's up or whatever and then or how are you and all that kind of stuff but you don't really mean it you're just saying that to the guy at the grocery store counter that you're not talking to anymore and then my response to that was like oh I care I do if the guy told me like I'm having a bad day I would stop and say tell me what's going on, you know, what's happening? How can I help? But there is that also, you know, I've done this as an experiment too, where you walk down the street in America or somewhere and you're like, sup. And the other person says sup. And then, or there's someone says, how you doing? And you say pretty terrible. And then they don't know how to respond because they're just used to, they're just being an automaton. They're just doing that all the time. So I don't know. I think that it's a good critique of our culture too. And they're not wrong. They're just different. I love that. they appreciate it
Justin:
[9:04] Right everyone.
Tyler:
[9:05] Does everyone likes a good compliment right
Justin:
[9:07] I feel you hit the nail on the head though it's kind of like are you delivering that um small talk are you delivering the small talk with care and this is this is really getting into um more of the unseen right because it's like you it's not about the message
Justin:
[9:29] you say what's up you say what's up it's how you deliver that what's up, right? Are you actually there to listen if someone says, man, I don't know what's up. I'm kind of struggling today, right? Because for me, that's one of, I feel, the most fruitful things in my entire life is just the act of listening, right? Because what happens if I'm going to give you just a little question, like what happens when you genuinely listen?
Tyler:
[9:59] You uh you can go one of two ways when you genuinely listen to someone you can either find that you're forming a deep relationship and it's like this is really good that i'm doing this you can also find that you've been sucked into a black hole that you can't get out of without having to set a boundary that you're uncomfortable making and i think a lot of folks especially in our culture find themselves in that trap because they're like too nice for their own good where you end up with someone who will maybe not even on purpose but like sort of continually take advantage of your kindness um and to circle back to the other thing i think the the scandinavians are more comfortable just cutting that off from the junk you're like i'm not going to put myself in that position every man is an island they can take care of themselves we take care of it with our social security and our tax i paid my taxes i shouldn't have to babysit that is that's denmark in a nutshell right there i
Justin:
[11:03] Like it i do it's very you see this is like one of my my favorites is being paradoxical because right sometimes i say that in the podcast i love you but at the same time, I also, there's this quote from Rumi, which is like, if you're going to shoot an arrow,
Justin:
[11:24] the blade and honey. So I love to be harsh, but I also need to bring in that compassion, right? So what you're talking about with the Scandinavians is kind of like, are you genuinely, are you really just kind? Or is this a facade? Are you just being nice to be nice? Are you just throwing compliments out because you want to receive compliments, right? Are you just saying what's up because it's just programmed into you. And you just, you're like, I don't know, you're unable to just stare some, look someone in the eyes and give them a wink or something. I love to get into this more maybe subconscious communication, like where we're paying attention to every gesture, the cadence of the speech, the tone of voice, the words, et cetera, et cetera.
Tyler:
[12:17] I think uh that that brings to mind the secret and i'm a fan i know it's a little bit weird and new agey for a lot of people but i like i like the book a lot and i do sort of in a broad brush way believe in the law of attraction but so many people read it and they don't internalize the intention part they more just get that if i behave you know it's like a orthodoxy versus orthopraxy if i behave in the way that this tells me to whether i'm genuine about it or not i will get the one and that is a shallow relationship to create with anyone and with yourself um but if you just go around saying nice things because you expect that that should come back to you in some ways it will but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get where you want to go in terms of like eventually you're going to get called on that someone is going to notice that you don't really care i would i would definitely posit that having had that experience in europe where like noticing that people really think about that i also think about that i had just been so i guess i was just so used to living in our world does that make sense to you you
Justin:
[13:30] Know it it brings me up to the the word motive like are what are you doing what you do for and this is kind of what we were talking about off air a little bit, that your motive for having people on, having these conversations isn't shallow. It's more for the fruit, which is maybe not the shiny object,
Justin:
[14:01] right? But the real gold. And I've been using the metaphor of fool's gold lately, because Because if you look at the way that humanity is kind of operating right now, we realize.
Justin:
[14:17] We are just almost like headless chickens, a lot of us. But then you and I, we can just sit here and have a conversation where we're kind of just taking it step by step. And I'm not thinking while you're talking, right? I'm just genuinely listening and letting the conversation guide us, right? Letting our everyday lives guide us. There's this quote that I like by Outkast, And he kind of says, the everyday ruler can't be too wrong. So for me, that's like being honest about, oh, yeah, did I have a motive, right? Like, did I go up to that girl because I want to create a certain impression? Or do I just go up to people because it's almost like intuitive?
Justin:
[15:08] You know, if you make eye contact with someone, and you just like have a moment where it feels like, oh, there's space for us to have a conversation. See, a lot of the words that I use in terms of communication, they're a bit abstract. Like, what does space mean? Well, practically, like there's space between my lips and the microphone. But you can feel that space if you're like aware of maybe the unseen, if you're just paying attention to not only the surface, if you're not getting stuck in your motives, right? If you question your motives, Then you learn about yourself. I digress.
Tyler:
[15:47] Yeah.
Justin:
[15:48] I think it's bringing up paradoxes earlier.
Tyler:
[15:51] It's an interesting thing because there are times, especially in your line of work, you're talking with entrepreneurs, right? Where you do have a motive. You need to speak to someone because you have a specific goal in mind. And you can approach it with like, I don't really care what goes.
Tyler:
[16:05] I'm just kind of here to see how it plays out. But there's also times when you're like, you're in a business meeting and you have a particular thing that you want from the other party and the other party wants something from you and you've got to figure out what that is.
Tyler:
[16:18] And so I think a lot of what I've, I don't struggle with this, but I think I've struggled with getting other people around me, maybe on my teams or whatever to, to embrace is that it's okay to be assertive. It's okay to just say what you want.
Tyler:
[16:33] And oftentimes people will respect you a lot more if you do. Yeah. There are so many things in, uh, in business media where it's sort of these cultural courtesies. So you'll see this in culture a lot, the Japanese or even the Middle East, where there's a almost It's a social requirement that you talk about anything and everything but the task at hand for a long time first, and then it's okay to delve into business. Whereas, I'd say Americans are known worldwide for just being like, hey, let's just get right down to brass tacks and talk about what's at hand. Let's make sure everybody here gets the deal we want and move on, the negotiation part of it. Um and when i'm looking through like the list of just episode titles of your podcast stuff that i either listen to or sometimes i don't even listen to it i just like see the headline i'm like that's what i'm gonna work on today you know like you mentioned thinking while listening and that's something i'm so guilty of i do that all the time i'm always like i think it's because of the podcast situation where there's this situation that
Justin:
[17:37] Could be just dead.
Tyler:
[17:38] Air between us talking where I need to make sure I'm a step ahead of that all the time and so that causes me to like I'll hear something and then I'll maybe not be like a hundred percent just thinking this is what I'm going to say next but it's like in case this ends in a non sequitur I've got to have something floating in my head. What do you think of the differences between how people approach conversations when they do and don't want something out of it? What are the appropriate ways to handle those situations?
Justin:
[18:11] The most appropriate way to be both a businessman and someone who is not just a human having or human doing, right? We're energetic beings.
Justin:
[18:28] But all that being said, right? Sometimes there are specific meetings. So, I feel it's kind of like being dynamic. So that means I don't think what you're doing is bad. Understanding like, hey, if this is a non sequitur, what could arise? But then can you notice? Because I've watched that same process unfold for me. And I notice it kind of stops me from listening and continuing to dance with the same flow that I was just listening to. I feel like part of this game is understanding how to meet people exactly where they're at, whilst still being assertive, like you're talking about, right? Like not being too passive so that you take on everyone's energy, but at the same time being open and vulnerable enough so that you can meet others where they're at. So your question is so good. It's one of those questions that I can't say, step one, you do this, step two, you do this. But I would say primarily, we got to get good at being balanced. And sometimes that means you drop the hammer. Then other times that means you're kind of very light on your feet.
Justin:
[19:53] And the only way to understand when to employ certain energies is like listening to your thinking while you're listening, noticing, oh yeah, like this is where my mind goes. Why does my mind go there? What does that imply? One of my favorites is to like, okay, we use certain words, but what does each word that we've just used imply?
Justin:
[20:21] And these are the sorts of conversations where, I mean, we have a great environment to do that sort of thing right here. But if you're just passing by someone on the street, there's just not the space for that.
Tyler:
[20:33] Yeah. The meanings of words is always on my mind. Like what do you what what is the intention what were the subconscious little tidbits that i can gain from the words that you perhaps didn't choose to use but inadvertently used while you did it what was the tone everything um and interestingly there are i don't know if it can be trained there seem to be some people that really pick up on this stuff very intuitively maybe not without even being able to explain what it is that they picked up on or that they just they just know how to read people and then there are other folks that are a little bit less likely to do that you know you're more math you know left brain type people you're you're what we would call now like everyone's autistic oh you don't really get social cues that kind of thing um and there's there's use for everyone in that space it's just a matter of like would you would you send someone who's really bad edit social cues to a very important business dinner.
Justin:
[21:34] A huge negotiation is.
Tyler:
[21:36] Going to take place where you need to impress someone who's like is that's not probably not to the particular night that you need to slay that drag
Justin:
[21:43] That's that's a good point, and so that that brings up like both the logical mind and the intuition because you know okay motive business meeting and then sort of logically you understand certain person is at certain place.
Justin:
[22:05] While intuitively it's kind of like, well, one of my questions that helps me is like, what's the simplest next step? Or almost I've learned a lot about communication with others and just knowing when to do what. That's like, it's a broad statement, knowing when to do what. What does that even mean? Well, there are just certain, if I define the word intuition, it's kind of like the processing of millions of bits of information simultaneously.
Justin:
[22:40] So how do I logically explain that, right? I would have to run through millions of bits of like social cues and subconscious things. But I feel there's a way what you were hinting at is like, I never chose to kind of be like this. And that's almost what you were saying. And therefore, I never judge people for not being like this, right? Because I feel you get to a point where you realize, okay, you are who you are. Now, the question is, how can I fully be who I am? And then the next question is sort of like, what are the false parts of me that I am playing out right now, right? Like, where am I wearing a mask in my life? And if we investigate, I think how you get intuitively connected is not through seeking to be intuitive. I think it's through noticing when you're lying to yourself, noticing when you're like doing something that makes you cringe deep inside, but you're doing it because you want to conform in some way. Does that resonate?
Tyler:
[23:51] Absolutely. I think every single person I know, including myself, is guilty of sometimes you catch yourself doing something that you wish you hadn't, either through habit or through circumstance. You feel trapped. Definitely, I hurt for people who have jobs that require them to do things or be in situations that they wouldn't be if they weren't getting paid for it. I think that sucks. I'm really happy to be working exclusively for myself now because I've been in so many, especially in the military, more than anything, there's just these situations that you're in and you're like, this is not who I am.
Justin:
[24:30] And that's a really good topic.
Tyler:
[24:33] Yeah. Tell me about it. What do you think?
Justin:
[24:36] I really remember dabbling with the idea of going to the military because I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. Not a clue. I just kind of knew that I didn't want a corporate cubicle job.
Tyler:
[24:49] Oh, there you are.
Justin:
[24:50] I'm 26 right now.
Tyler:
[24:52] Hell yeah. Okay. I'm 29, so we're not too far apart.
Justin:
[24:55] Yeah. And the military, there's actually, I won't go far here, but there's a client that I have and he's running a cleaning business and we're
Justin:
[25:04] sort of helping him scale his cleaning business. And he was telling me about going to the army. And just yesterday I saw him at the gym and he mentioned that it's only a five month basic training and then a once per month thing. And that just made me ecstatic for him because although some individuals need that discipline, right? Some people need to like be put in a box, but there are also people who that is the last thing they need. And I feel that's the type of guy I am.
Tyler:
[25:38] And the last thing you need people are the ones who need it the most you
Justin:
[25:43] I like that too a lot I like that a lot so go deeper there because I want to listen to to where that comes from I like.
Tyler:
[25:52] I am also like resonating a lot with what you're saying like I'm the I don't need anyone to tell me what to do you know all that kind of stuff and the truth is that's a lie that you tell yourself and when when you find yourself as that type of person in a situation where you just have to accept that you don't have a choice, that you're just part of this group and you need to conform to the part of the team function that you fulfill for the greater good of everybody, it humbles you and it makes you a better man.
Justin:
[26:23] Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. Because like, why else would you find yourself in that situation? You know, there's levels to this, right? It's kind of like, um, I'm at a point in my life now where I wouldn't voluntarily step back into something like that. But there are also moments in my life where I'm still that person, right? Who is just like, let's patch the holes in the ship together. Let's make sure this thing doesn't go down because I have a idea of who I'm meant to be, right? I think that's really important in any form of spiritual work is like being good at questioning the things or the ideas which you are holding on to. So I almost make fun of myself frequently. Like my mom will tell me something or she won't tell me something. I'll be like, don't tell me what to do but i'll say it in such a like you can tell me what to do it is what it is but at the same time i kind of i make fun of myself by meant by saying that it's like shining light on the part of me who doesn't want to be told what to do yeah.
Tyler:
[27:35] Yeah i i am so guilty of that i i think i was always sort of a like a natural leader like someone who i was just very comfortable being in charge of things and like telling everybody like okay do that do this do that and i could see the big picture in my head you know it makes for project managers that kind of stuff pretty well But I was terrible when I had to step back and let someone else lead. I've always been terrible. I'm still terrible at that. It's something I need to work on, just being a member of the team and just trusting in another person's instead of my own. Because I would be the kind of guy who's walking into the boss's office and screaming at the top of my lungs saying, you're doing it all wrong. And they'd be like, if you just calm down, we have a plan. What's the plan? And they're like, you don't need to know the plan. but I do and that's such a it's I think it's good to have those experiences but I would also say it's something that I personally need to want to work on is just being more comfortable letting someone else be in charge it happens all the time my wife and I have very similar personalities
Tyler:
[28:44] Where we both have that don't tell me what to do instinct and then both of us also like have to like take those moments and realize like we each have each other's best interest in mind why are we so adverse to that but it's like a precondition from other things in life where it's like if someone else is telling me what to do they don't have my best intention and she's also in the military so we I think we both had that experience and then taking the space to say like okay you you're not trying to boss me around you're just trying to help and each of us having to say like I need to work on not trying to be the leader all the time and then also recognizing like, but it's okay that this other person cares about what I do and how I feel and what the consequences of what I'm doing are.
Tyler:
[29:32] And that's another paradoxical dynamic, but I think those paradoxes make for a great relationship where you can constantly be faced with some of your worst fears or your biggest challenges and be comfortable doing that. And that's how you get better at things.
Justin:
[29:48] That's how you grow. That's exactly it. Because especially with couple relationships, you really get accustomed to one another's, subtleties or habits, like what you labeled social cues, right? Just those things that are quote-unquote little. But for me, this is where it brings back up. It's not about the message itself. It's about how you communicate the message, you know, because if someone tells me what to do in a like, hey.
Justin:
[30:26] Dumbass, go do. I'm like, yo, what? But if someone says, hey, Justin, could you help me out and get that done, please? I'm like, you know, yeah, I got your back. It's kind of and I'm not saying I'm going to like throw a fit if someone tells me, yo, dumbass, do this. But I am saying that in real human interrelationships where you actually care about one another, you're going to understand what words to use, what tone of voice, what not to say. Or like you may have something clear come up, but you may also feel now isn't the moment. You know, let that thing sit. Let me figure out how to communicate it more clearly. One of my favorites it's like biblical but I'm not a religious guy but it's like if you don't have anything nice to say why why are you saying anything so like if you can't commute what I decipher that as is if you can't communicate what you need to communicate clearly let sit sit figure out how to communicate that kindly and then one of my favorites is like being kind and assertive simultaneously like you can change how you communicate in any moment because and this is kind of I feel the playfulness that any real leader needs because does that make sense.
Tyler:
[31:52] 100% yeah I had to take classes on assertive communication and one of the interesting things that I learned this is like part of therapy that I learned about myself is that I felt like Like I'm a very assertive person. And in most cases, I am. I'm very comfortable telling someone what I want. I'm very comfortable saying no, except with someone that I'm very, very close to. And then I have this tendency to just sort of like be passive and let them make their own mistakes and not say anything or even kind of shoulder a lot of weight without complaining about it. Because I mean you know many people have been through these situations but like as a kid that's just kind of how I felt it was to be I had a lot of siblings you know and and I just felt like when it's someone you're close to you don't
Tyler:
[32:46] Bring certain things up you just you just let it happen and you're you fall into your role ironic considering what i was saying but when it came to not close friends or family i had no issue whatsoever just being direct um so i would there's a great book called when i say no i feel guilty that i think really targets this type of behavior um and teaching people to be more assertive in their communication but giving you those tools where it's like you don't have to come across as an asshole because the reason why you feel guilty when you say no is you said no it's because you're afraid that the other person is going to buy you saying no or or or feel shocked when you finally put up a boundary that you never because they've become accustomed to it and it could be that they're not a bad person it could be that they're just simply taken aback by a change or it could be that they truly have boundary issues and then you need to be defensive with that person. You need to be, or even offensively defensive with that person and say like, you can't take advantage of me anymore. But you don't have to say, listen here you son of a bitch, I'm not going to take your shit anymore.
Tyler:
[33:59] I appreciate this, but I don't have time to deal with this right now. You're going to have to figure it out on your own. If you need help, you can call me, but I can't promise that I'll have time.
Tyler:
[34:11] Learning just to do that It requires some people, myself included, to take a lot of time to reconstruct the way that they deal with social situations.
Justin:
[34:22] It's like when you're saying no to someone, you kind of have to already be aware of how they're going to react. If you will, is there a way for you to be so present in the moment that you're communicating that you can feel where they're standing, right? And this is what I mean when I say meet someone where they're at. Right.
Justin:
[34:56] You're just, you're open without judgment.
Justin:
[35:01] And also what you mentioned too about the past with your family, right? Where maybe something that I've just learned psychologically is from ages zero to seven, right? That's what creates a lot of our foundational perception. And based on how we were raised in that time that's like half the work to actually feeling energy and being aware of what isn't materially seen but still being able to feel what is there it's like Bob Proctor said once you just have to tune into what's already there And the art of that is like understanding your physical, your programming from zero to seven and how that like extends into how you see yourself, how you see others. And then like the art of questioning where you stand, right? Because how in the world could you ever understand how someone else is going to react without first observing all of your reactions, right? So that's kind of how I do the energetic communication is I don't find anything more intriguing in my life than breaking down my own projections.
Justin:
[36:25] Like when, let's say.
Tyler:
[36:28] Someone says something
Justin:
[36:29] To me and then I feel friction in my heart or my gut or I get insert fear or insecure or triggered in any sort of emotional way. It's like in that trigger, that interaction with someone else, there's an opportunity for me to learn. There's an opportunity for me to respond instead of just merely reacting.
Tyler:
[36:54] Right.
Justin:
[36:56] Do you...
Tyler:
[36:57] Just break down kind of what you do or a little bit for the listening audience because you are a coach essentially for people who are in the service-based entrepreneurial sort of space online mostly from what I gather. And then you're also a personal trainer like in the gym.
Justin:
[37:20] You know that just how do I put it? I've always been an athlete. So that's like the back end foundation.
Justin:
[37:29] My line of work really is like, I'm angling it toward those who have climbed, not the wrong mountain, but for those who have gotten the things which they thought would make them happy, and they're still not happy internally, right? And that's kind of where the energetic understanding comes in to uproot. Like, okay, I got all this money. I did all these great things, but I still feel empty inside. I feel disconnected from my heart and I don't feel joy. Like what's going on here? I thought like once I got this status and this career and accolade and, uh, et cetera, this income, my life would be sweet. But then, you know, you start to feel you climbed the wrong mountain. And then on the back end, I do jujitsu. I played football when I was younger. I've always been weightlifting my whole life. So it was funny, my jujitsu instructor, he just posted an ad yesterday about looking for some new directors. And I just reached out. So we'll see if that happens in the future. But I got a lot of things going on right now. I'm doing the coaching. I'm building a lead generation business with my business partner.
Justin:
[38:56] But holistically, it's kind of like you. Just figuring out there has to be a way for me to find work that I enjoy. And that's my foundation. That's really the foundation.
Tyler:
[39:10] Yeah. I just enjoy helping people. Um and i also find it frustrating when someone as you were saying like they they seem to have climbed a mountain and then they are not happy and getting them to see their like their own misinterpretation of what it is if someone has it like hey what's your And then I hear them, and then my first thought, oh, that's all wrong. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say, like, ah, you don't need to do that. Sometimes I have. I won't lie to you. Sometimes I have just told people, like, that's dumb. Don't do that. Because on one hand, that's a judgment on my side. But it's also, like, some people just can't handle that shift, that red pill moment where they're like, oh, everything that I believe is a lie.
Tyler:
[39:56] But, like, first and foremost, I just always, like, don't do anything just for. You should have money in your mind as in in order to be able to do what it is you want but if you think that just getting rich is going to make you happy it's not it never does anyone who's ever been rich could tell you that very simple and if someone is rich and thinks that being rich makes them happy they're lying to themselves and they're probably an evil person so i would keep that in mind too but especially in the video game space you know i deal with so many clients or just colleagues friends peers whatever who have like this goal in mind of like i want to be a game developer how are you going to do that well i'm going to make a game okay well how are you going to do that and kind of slowly constructing in their mind like why is it that you want to make a game why is it that you think that you want to be in this in this industry and if the motivation is because it's the only thing in the world for me. And that's what I really want to do is be, you know, it could be like, I want to make this particular game. It could be, I want to work in this industry, you know, as a level designer or a programmer. I just want to be in this space in general.
Tyler:
[41:11] And it can also be, well, I just hate what I'm currently doing. That seems preferable. And oftentimes the truth is you go from point A to point B and you realize that this is just the same thing in a different career on paper, but I'm still just as miserable making games as I was,
Justin:
[41:30] I don't know, insert.
Tyler:
[41:34] Regular, electrician, whatever it was. so the question is like does does your career make you happy but because somehow that that career fulfills you or is
Tyler:
[41:47] it have something that you've got to figure out about what motivates you that will kind
Justin:
[41:54] Of string in.
Tyler:
[41:54] Words together here but that will more align as you were saying with like who you really are um and it's very especially with younger dudes i would say they always think in the short term this will I did this myself I really had this realization in maybe the past like three or four years I always had this idea like if I could just get here I'll finally be happy if I could just get to this point in my career or this this job title this amount of money get this project done then I'll be able to relax and every time I climb that mountain i would be a valley and a bigger taller mountain ah what a mistake this was but it's never a mistake you just learn and come out better for it but i have this instinct to try to protect people from making the same mistakes i did and sometimes i have to take a seat a step back and say i'm just gonna have to let you figure this out and then we can talk about it later and then
Justin:
[42:54] We'll just share.
Tyler:
[42:55] The the bonding experience of having both gone through that relation
Justin:
[43:00] You know, it reminds me of, right, if someone isn't there to listen, there's only so much you can share with them. And this is like, one of the harder parts about learning, like actually changing in depth inside your heart, is like you want to share the change with others. But if they're not ready to change if they can't listen then you gotta find people who are gonna listen especially if you like for me i don't know anything more meaningful than having real conversations and just being alive like vital enjoying the moments like picking up a leaf and looking at all the details on that leaf. To me, you get to a point where you just start to see, okay, once I get there, it comes via thought. And we're meant to have memory because memory plays a great role. We have our knowledge, our experience, and we can have so many different imaginations and fantasies. But there's a certain shallowness to all that which, all that is derived via thought.
Justin:
[44:25] And so I think what I'm kind of sharing with humanity in a way is how can we live our lives where we're both sharp, calculated, honest, intellectually wise and advanced, but also connected, like connected to our holistic, our gut, our heart, our mind. And I think one of the tough ones, especially for like certain industries, whether it be doctors or lawyers, game developers, engineers.
Justin:
[44:55] Fields where logic is predominant. How do you invite that balance into your life where you're not just falling into a trap of once I get this, then I'll be happy. And I feel the sooner you can unravel that illusion, which is you set it perfect. What happens is exactly what you said, right? You get to the top of that mountain, then you realize, oh wait, there's an even bigger mountain, right? And then the real journey I feel is like figuring out and then not forgetting.
Justin:
[45:34] Because if you figure something out once, you can forget it. So you need to be able to embody like, hey, the destination is the journey, motherfucker how do you enjoy every moment in every day and i mean i i wish it was that simple right i wish i could just say do this but i also the game has been created in a way where it wouldn't be fun if it was that simple anyways yeah.
Tyler:
[46:03] As i get older and i think i already kind of have a vision of the kind of old man i'm gonna be but i'm gonna be like the guy on the taller mountain waving as I see people make the summit. Hey. In there good job um it's interesting though the the dynamic that you find yourself in and i think anytime that you have this sort of like uh advice based service your podcast is so like you know it's it's amazing it's just like short maybe 10 15 minute you know tidbits and like i don't know if you plan it you can tell more about your process too but just here's the here's some things to think about and basically giving advice and then i think that the natural response out of especially entrepreneurial type people is going to be like fuck does this guy have to offer what is this 26 year old from connecticut going to tell me that i don't know right and that's a it's a logical question to ask maybe the tone is a little wrong maybe the receiving it is wrong but what is it and then you also have people who are have gotten to a place where they're actively seeking help. They're like, I want to know what else, but they may not necessarily go to you. They may not think like, that's the guy that's going to change my life. So how do you tackle that? How do you navigate that space?
Justin:
[47:25] You know, it's always been like certain things have felt that they came more easily. And I'm sure you've had this in your life too, right? Where maybe you mentioned natural leader, right? Right. Certain things are just easier, smoother. For me, I've invested like 10, 20, almost 30K in this point in terms of learning the skill sets that I need to be able to do the work. Right. Because how do I put it? The sales calls, the marketing, the branding, all of that and understanding exactly the individual who I'm speaking to, that's all the stuff that was harder for me. And I'm not saying I'm done or I'm a master, but, and then the message, like the speaking, the internal work, just feels very, like.
Justin:
[48:25] This is your path. Keep rolling. Stay open, right? Hence the MMA coaching. And I also do some hardscaping with my friend, build patios and help him with his business too. So it's like, I'm an open man.
Justin:
[48:40] Wherever things bring me, I'll go. But at the same time, it has been challenging for sure to understand like, hey, how do you communicate something which is not necessarily tangible.
Justin:
[48:55] But Travis, wait, Tyler, the thing that means the most to me is being able to feel what makes me feel right, what charges me, what makes me feel alive. And I know that when I have conversations with one of my clients, Adam, like it is just so, it's beyond joy. I can't put it into words, but it's like, he's listening. I'm questioning him. He knows I'm not questioning him with like a demeaning manner. We're just like unraveling his inner workings together. And so ultimately, I'm not sure if I answered your question, but really the most challenging part is like doing the marketing. Like doing the marketing in a way where I'm incorporating the pain points. And I don't know, I feel I'm at the point where the right things, the right people, the opportunities, the money will come. And this is kind of the essence of following your heart is I'm not doing the coaching for money primarily. Maybe it started as an idea and that was the thought, right? Whole reason I started coaching was because I wanted to have a podcast.
Tyler:
[50:24] And it went from podcast,
Justin:
[50:27] Share the message, to, oh, wait, how do I get people to the podcast? Well, go on social media. And I came across coaching. I was like, oh, well, maybe this feels right. So went into coaching. And so I don't know, it's, I guess, this openness to being, have you ever heard that quote where it's like the lantern is guiding the way, and the lantern is only showing you a few steps ahead. It's not like you have a jet light all around you. And I choose to kind of live my life in that manner where I'm not going to logically plan everything. That doesn't mean I'm disorganized, right? Of course, be orderly. Dot your I's, cross your T's, be sharp, be honest, precise.
Justin:
[51:14] But let your heart guide you i know that's a long rant i digress.
Tyler:
[51:18] No no no it makes perfect sense to me i i'm i'm definitely i think the best analogy i could give you is to like it's like the lord of the rings that life feels like the lord of the like i i'm going to mount doom and then people will be like you can't get there i'm like okay well i'm going and you're like well i mean you know there's like orcs and all kinds of challenges and stuff i'm like yeah that's fine but i'm not really thinking it's going to be a straight line. I'm not thinking we're just going to bushwhack our way straight to Mount Doom. I enjoy the process of every little thing that comes up. Okay, how do we solve this mystery? How do we get out of this situation? And
Tyler:
[51:59] One of the big realizations i had about as a creative person um like you were talking about your motivations like i got into this because i wanted to have a podcast like for me i mean i wanted to have a podcast don't get me wrong but i what i realized in deeply about myself is that every single thing that i've been i really just like storytelling and i don't really care what the medium like in video games i like telling the story i like writing the script i like having you know sculpting it an experience for a player to have i don't really care about programming and i i do i do i i enjoy the things that programming can bring to you and i enjoy art but i don't want to be an artist like drawing things and i don't want to be a programmer i just want to share stories with people the podcast is the same thing wrestling was the same thing uh theater all of that stuff just comes down to i enjoy that and so what when i'm presenting you know something like when we had that little conversation before we started about like what's the what's the motivation of the podcast or like i'm just like making it clear that it's not about getting you to say something that i can clip and say like oh this uh energy J.L.A.N. McGurray guy admits that he's a cult leader and has thousands of sex slaves in his basement.
Tyler:
[53:24] But, you know, that's a real concern because people do do that. There are so many traps out there, especially on the Internet.
Justin:
[53:31] You know, where do I start right there? I think there's, yes, the storytelling and the scripting that you were mentioning. You know what gets me? I feel that's like.
Tyler:
[53:49] How do you bridge?
Justin:
[53:52] And now, of course, that's what we're doing. That's why we learn skill sets. That's why we're here today. But you've seen that concept in the past of the starving artist, right? The people who, it's like they have something to share, but they don't bridge it all together, right? And I feel that's been part of the the journey and like you're saying I'm gonna go to Mount Doom and I don't care if I go alone and I don't care what it takes but all I know is my heart shows me right if you even look at like stories of like what did Jesus do walk into the desert with no like anything like what what do you mean I feel if you have that type of connection with your heart with source with whatever you want to label it. And you have that inherent strength, which doesn't need conclusions. And I think there's beauty when you're not so set on certainty. Yes. And if you really step back, if we look at how this whole universe, this planet came to be, there's obviously some motherfucker out there, one, who likes writing stories, right? Because humanity is a story and it's been going on for so long. Yeah.
Tyler:
[55:09] And there's too many different variables.
Justin:
[55:12] Like we're still figuring out new fish in the ocean every day. Right. We don't know. But I guess what fascinates me is sort of, is there that essence of creation in every human being? Is like that power, that intelligence, which wrote the story of the planet, human beings, is that within every single human being? Like that's my big question and i feel some humans can like see holy shit it's
Justin:
[55:42] undeniably true and then.
Tyler:
[55:44] What do
Justin:
[55:45] You do from there.
Tyler:
[55:45] Now a lot lots of clients and colleagues in the video game space or in any space but i'll primarily i work with video game people who who come to me and they're like i don't have enough money so I want to sell this game so that I can have money and I also want to do a particular I have a goal for this game a vision and I'm like the two can coexist but you have to make compromises to align them I like this word alignment it's going to be the word of the day
Tyler:
[56:21] So I'm not going to say names because sometimes these are not pleasant some people have this disconnect where they cannot reconcile the two goals It's like they're constantly angry because they're constantly unwilling to change their vision in order to make money. And I'm trying to find the balance in between. Maybe you don't make a dollar off of this. Maybe this game is a stepping stone on the way to your magnum. Maybe you just need to get this thing out so that you can have the money that you recoup from that so that you can circle back and either change it or make something new. It's even better than that. And they get in their own way constantly. And I really struggle. Sometimes I just have to say I can't work. Like, I just can't do this. And I've gotten better at that because I used to really, really believe in anyone could do this. Anyone can figure it out. And I'm not saying they can't. i'm just saying maybe i'm not the guy that or they can get them there or maybe not at this time maybe this has to be done later but it is very very frustrating to even even with myself even with you know my own internal shit it's it's not just i'm projecting this out on there i think everyone has these moments where you cannot seem to see what's right in front of you so you bring up the recognition source or god or whatever word we want to
Justin:
[57:44] Throw in there i.
Tyler:
[57:45] Like the way that you talk about these podcasts you're constantly asserting not religious and not trying to tell you anything but it's also spiritual and that's a paradox within itself but it's true um there's been so many situations where it's maybe the answer to your problems you're gonna hate me for saying it but it's probably something like jesus or buddha and i'm not saying that you need to go to church and you know give 10 of your money and all but i am saying figure out whatever that is for you because that's what you're struggling with is you don't have faith in something you just think you're supposed to do it all for yourself You just think in your mind, I could solve this, but you clearly can't. And that's why you're here asking me for advice. And my advice to you is probably stop depending solely on yourself. But it's such a hard conversation. I admire how brave you are, honestly, in your show with trying to do that, even though it's a nearly impossible task.
Justin:
[58:46] Right. And I think that's what makes the climb to Mount Doom worthwhile,
Justin:
[58:51] right? Certain people are meant for those certain tasks. And what you bring up there is exactly it. Because this is the essence, and this is why I say, call it whatever you want it. I'm not part of a certain religion. Why? Because I'm not going to segregate the truth, because the fact is, humans get in their own way. We all do. We all do. That's natural. But there's beauty in unraveling how that works. What you're saying is really on point too. Sometimes you're not the guy. Sometimes it's not the right moment. Someone may hear me and just not be able to hear what I'm saying. And that's okay. But I just know that the pacing is the pacing. And how do you put it?
Justin:
[59:52] If you are trusting, or it's like this balance of, okay, on a daily basis, there are certain things that need to be done. And also on a daily basis, there are moments where I cannot be the one who fixes this, right? So how do you dance with both of those in your life? Where you know, in business, you may have to be a businessman, but is there a way to incorporate that healthy dynamic into your life. And I feel looking at how you get in your own way is probably the best start. If any of you listening right now are feeling as if Tyler was just speaking directly to you, then no one's mad at you. And you can't even be mad at yourself.
Justin:
[1:00:47] Just be honest about how you feel. And then look at how your thoughts and your actions play a role in how you feel. Like if you have an internal conflict, well then you might just have to do what Tyler said. And learn to compromise a bit. For me, young ambitious Justin would have, and I say this sometimes too, Justin on paper, who is he? But I know who I am in person. Like people say things to me that I wouldn't dare say about myself because it's like, wait, what did you really?
Justin:
[1:01:24] Wow. I like to say sometimes they're writing a story I wouldn't dare to write myself. And then like, what does that mean? Well, it doesn't mean much because the message isn't about the person whom the message comes through. And I feel that's really important in any essence of truth being spoken. It has nothing to do with me. It really doesn't. This is just part of the fact that we have a human design. And hey, if we can catch on to how we're made what we are inherently, then maybe humanity is better. what you were talking about earlier about the team. Sometimes it's not always about you. I'm team humanity. Yeah.
Tyler:
[1:02:14] I... Think i probably you and i have got to intersect on this i was i was talking earlier about like sort of the misconceptions that someone might have from the way that your show is presented right where you're listening to something like that and i think there's a natural intuition to be like what's the catch what's this guy want from me you know what's he selling uh or you know is he trying to get me to join his cult or something like you know it's it's so i i have had this one guy on a long time ago who was a wim hof coach he was doing like the breathing exercise stuff and he was amazing but i'm like you gotta you you definitely have some kind of weird sex cold don't and he's like no i really don't i really honestly i just like to help people breathe better and accomplish their goals through learning how to control their breath and i'm like yeah but there's something and i know it's not true but i also get that myself where it's like people are like why are you why are you even
Justin:
[1:03:11] Helping you know.
Tyler:
[1:03:12] Which what is this and i'm like genuinely my number one concern is that i would like for you to be happy i would like for you to walk away from this situation happier and i want your game to come out exactly what you envision and i want you to make enough money maybe not become a bajillionaire but so that you can continue to go down this journey comfortably without struggling. Those are my motivations. I would also like to be able to do that in such a way that I don't go broke in the process of helping.
Justin:
[1:03:44] Mm-hmm.
Tyler:
[1:03:46] That's my motivation, but it's, there's this inherent distrust that you constantly deal with, with whether it be clients, friends, colleagues, just people that you meet on the street, whatever. Um, so have you ran into that? Like, have you dealt with people who like just straight out the gate? They're like, you're, you're bullshitting me or you're,
Justin:
[1:04:08] You know, there, there have been moments where I can feel I'm not meant to speak to someone. That's the closest I could get to it. Like, because I talk, dude, the amount of people I go up to at the gym and just talk to is insane. But there are some who I just haven't yet gone up to and talked to. And it's like, there was an 18 year old or 19, I don't know. But he was kind of saying, dude, you're so motivational. You're so like, how do you do this? I'm like, man, I didn't choose to go up and talk to you right now. Like I didn't think in my head, oh, let me go give this guy some motivation. You know what I mean? I just inherently, sometimes you're moved. Sometimes you're moved. And if we were to question my motives, I love, I love this because it's like what you said. It's okay. Can I do this thing in a way where I don't go broke in the process,
Justin:
[1:05:09] because I have no interest in being homeless. That being said, I do know that there's an intersection of.
Justin:
[1:05:21] Skills and talents culminating. And that's why I'm very much open-ended in how I live my life, right? I kind of don't ever see myself being dependent on any given source of income or dependent on any given one thing because I feel life is a ever expansive thing. So if you're not continuously trying new things, questioning your preconceived notions, questioning your beliefs. This is one of my favorites, though, because I don't naturally benefit through, well, how do I word this? There are just certain things that fuel you, right? And when I record, when I speak, it's just very much rewarding to feel how what you do changes what you are i'm gonna i'm gonna stop talking right there what do you think about that like um it's rewarding to feel how what you do changes what you are what do you feel about that.
Tyler:
[1:06:29] First thing that comes to mind straight out the gate is that you know this podcast started as a very different thing what it is now like the the motivation of this show was i really at the time cared a lot about arena first person shooter i i don't know why but that was like i just i loved i was obsessed with playing quake like bad it was a almost a problem you know like a video game addiction type scenario where all i thought about all day long was quake quake quake quake quake quake and i was a big fan of this other podcast that they were called The State of Quake ran by two dudes named Unkind and Slip were their tags anyway and another dude named D-Ron occasionally and they were like kind of the only show in town that was like bringing you the
Tyler:
[1:07:20] And you know the updates to the game politics behind and all that kind of it was a fantastic really really well-produced show and i love those guys um and so my motivation was to like help them because they were struggling to get together and make it up i was like what if i came in and i started doing i'll interview the pro players and like you could feature it you know that kind of thing and we'll talk about other arena games too not just quake we'll talk about unreal tournament about doom all that stuff and that'll be like a way for you guys to have more content and i didn't have any expectation whatsoever money from or doing anything of my own with it it's just going to be part of their brand um
Justin:
[1:08:00] And then over.
Tyler:
[1:08:01] Time i kind of realized that they were kind of not going to do it anymore so then i'm like okay well i'm just going to do it on my own now and then that led to you ever read the alchemist hey
Justin:
[1:08:13] I'm pretty sure i'm pretty.
Tyler:
[1:08:15] Sure i have so sort of a similar thing where if you you should reread it if you haven't it's fantastic but the next thing i know i'm in the space and i've ran out of arena shooter talk about like you know there's not that many of them and i'm like well what do i do now and then right at that same time was the we call like the boomer shooter renaissance like the all these 90s style like crunchy graphic games that are sort of inspired by doom and quake single player games became extremely popular like really really popular and i was already in that space so then people started coming to me like hey you want to
Justin:
[1:08:58] Talk about my.
Tyler:
[1:08:59] Game i'm like yes and then that grew and grew and grew and then i was still in the air force at the time and i knew i was i knew i was going to get out or stay in the military um by the time that i it came time for me to get out and go i had already in the video game industry through the people that i had either helped or they'd helped me or whatever networked with to create what you know in the keep podcast and what a showcase that we had called realms deep it's like a really great way to kind of get the trailers for a lot of these independent games in front of people that otherwise couldn't get that coverage by the time i got out i had a full like multiple job offers to walk straight into another job in the video game industry then i moved to Europe and I spent a couple of years just learning the business you know marketing project management you know how to run a QA department everything that I needed to know video game company I could just be part of right there in Denmark and then when that job window started to come to a close where it's like I'm not really relevant anymore like what I'm doing here is kind of over I won't lie and say I wasn't depressed about that but what I realized is I could just go back to America and I know everything that there is to know about how to start a company like this and I'd already had in the keep as an LLC because
Justin:
[1:10:26] Of the podcast so.
Tyler:
[1:10:27] I was able to just take the games that I had been working on silently and I'm like turn this into a real business and now I work for myself all of that started because I had a really innocent point of view of like I just want to help these guys with their podcast and so to circle back around to your questions like I just think that everything is iterative you always have a you're you may not know it but you are always working towards whatever your future it your lantern in the darkness area like I didn't know where I was going maybe at times I had goals or like I want to you know there in that way but
Tyler:
[1:11:07] The opportunities just presented themselves along the way as long as I've stayed in alignment with what I wanted to do at the time. What are my motivations? My motivations, I would like to say, were pretty pure, relatively pure, you know, for the most part. And the universe, the source, seemed to just reward that with opportunity. Then I would also say many people are on that path and are not yet this is why i bring up the alchemist good at seeing the omens that you know an opportunity presents itself do you see it for what it is or do you just see something vague that you don't really like understand because there are those and it probably happens to me every day there are these situations where it's like the the pot of gold is right here but all you see is a chest Mm-hmm.
Tyler:
[1:11:58] And it's like, just walk up and open the chest. The door's open. Walk through the door. It's right there. And then you're just like, eh, I don't want to look at that room today.
Justin:
[1:12:06] I'm going to go.
Tyler:
[1:12:06] And then they walk right past it. But maybe that's just not the door they're meant to walk down at that time. I don't know.
Justin:
[1:12:12] You know, that's so good. That's super. And like, there's a few points. But really, the fact is that if you're moving purely, innocently, you almost wear your heart on your sleeve. You're not like always doing everything you do for or with an expectation for reward, right? That's the corrupt part of us. That's the corrupt part of the mind, which is almost like black and white, like zero-sum games. It's me versus you.
Justin:
[1:12:45] I want to always get the right. But if you're just, okay, right? If you're listening to what your curiosity is driving you toward, what genuinely piques your interest, there's something, right? There's something there. And then there's also something there with the moments that just mess you up, whether it be a relationship, a certain fear, a certain interaction with a coworker. There's something there too. So, I think the greatest part of learning how to do alchemy is starting simply and just looking at those moments where your cauldron, if you will, is boiling. And that metaphor really means that your gut is boiling, right? And this is why I like to use the three bodily centers, because straight up your body will communicate so much with you. You know, if you're always thinking about Quake, right? You felt what that did to you. You knew, you're like, it's almost a problem.
Justin:
[1:13:55] I love that honesty. I love that. Because it's that sort of relationship with our own mind and our awareness of our three brains, gut, heart, and mind, that when you're honest about what is being communicated, then you can see the things that your ego defense mechanism covers up. Because when I say you're Tyler and I'm Justin, we're really the same thing deep down inherently, but we're all in different forms so is there a way to be be gracious about the fact that we are separated into forms and that will create um if you will we have a cup clear water ink you know droplets of ink in that cup but if we're aware of how our identity is creating our movement in the energy we radiate, then like you can start to get better at seeing the omens, the signs, the gifts, the opportunities that are like, um.
Justin:
[1:15:04] Maybe it's a, it's a gateway, but the door is covered, you know, maybe like a secret mansion type of vibe. And the gateway is behind the bookshelf. You got to get good at smelling, right? You look at the wall the bookshelf looks like the the wall there's no pathway to the to the secrets but you got to get good at like paying attention to what most people don't pay attention to maybe i i digress, no i think i'm.
Tyler:
[1:15:35] About to make a huge jump but i think i think i can tie this together So alchemy, in terms of recognizing omens or symbols in nature, nature philosophy would be a more proper term for what I'm talking about here.
Tyler:
[1:15:54] If you are immersed in the world of religious symbolism, of spiritual symbolism, of alchemy, Freemasonry, whatever that happens to be, you know and you get used to seeing the signs as they would say then you start to recognize i think that the universe the source god is giving you all these different as you say open door that you can walk through or you can or they could be telling you don't go here and the better you get at reading that the better you will be at just kind of like navigating life more or less unscathed or at least more comfortable with the situations you're in so um i'm really interested right now especially in psychic research i am like i think the episode before you will be steve mara who's like the head of parapsychology in the uk really really brilliant guy and what's interesting when you you look at people who are into like astral travel and viewing and are good at it. I'm talking about people who have worked for the CIA, the government, that kind of thing. Ingo Swann, these examples. He would talk about how if you are remote viewing a target, in his situation, let's say you're looking at something, I don't know, or on Mars, or on Jupiter, or whatever, and you're trying to figure out what's going on there.
Tyler:
[1:17:20] Human mind can only conceive of what it has something to explain right so if you told a remote viewer i want you to look at cuba in the you know 1960s and try to figure out if there's a nuclear reactor there if that person doesn't know what a nuclear looks like or a bomb you know like an actual detonator for a nuclear weapon looks like they will not see that they'll see a
Tyler:
[1:17:51] Something that they can tie together like that like that is a symbol or a metaphor for that so they may see a tea kettle about to few like with steam coming out about to blow they might see a stove or a pot boiling over you brought up the cauldron and their mind will just superimpose something that they do understand over something that they don't have a concept for and oftentimes in life this is so woo woo but i don't really care uh you will have those moments where it's like if you feel that pot of that cauldron or whatever in your stomach your stomach is starting to get uncomfortable when you're in an uncomfortable situation that might mean that this is an explosive situation if you if you have a dream and you have a vision about i don't know if something that you're about to do and you see every scenario where it could go wrong, but you get a symbol instead of exactly what's going to happen. Does that metaphor of that symbol align with
Tyler:
[1:18:52] Your feelings are and does it align with what you encounter if you go through with that and those are really important questions i think that everyone should try to ask themselves because if you can learn to recognize those signs within yourself or the signs that you see coming outwardly you know if you're walking towards a building and you see something like i don't know that's something that it doesn't matter what it is like an animal fly by or whatever that just scares the shit out of you like if there's ravens sitting on top of a house that you're about to go in chances are it's a scary place and the universe is trying to tell you that it's scary but if you if you're like apprehensive about something and then you see a dove fly through at that moment it might just make you just comfortable enough to be like oh you know this is beautiful i can handle this it could be but recognizing those things and how they make you feel and how that affects your intuition not only is that something spiritual but it's also like at least in the realm of parapsychology and psi research, almost a provable scientific fact that
Justin:
[1:19:56] The way that.
Tyler:
[1:19:56] You approach things and the things that you interpret outwardly coming to you from whatever that thing is will probably have a very similar result to what your experience is going to be or what your experience is. And that could be confirmation bias but you could also say that confirmation bias is somehow what you're ultimately moving towards like we don't know the timeline where you didn't do what you did we just know the one where you did what you did and that is the only experience you're going to have so whether or not that could be said to be information doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things what is the ultimate outcome for you what do you experience and what do you want to experience versus what you don't want to experience
Justin:
[1:20:48] When you bring up the confirmation bias, it very much reminds me of like one of those, this is how the mind will battle with the intuition. I'll tell you a little story from my client. And he used to play basketball and he would have moments where he's on the court and he could feel here's the opportunity steal like get the steal then his mind would bring up oh what if like what if I miss the steal coach she's by time that happened there's no more opportunity for the steel. So the intuition, it works like that in a way where, and one more story, right? I was coming off of a, maybe a turbulent conversation or moment with my lady. And just as you said yesterday, I gave some silence for the situation, some space, and we were just both outside yesterday. She asked me, how are you feeling? And I'm like, yeah, I just feel a little, maybe like there's not too much to say. I'm still just processing things.
Justin:
[1:22:06] And right as I say that, like a minute later, two white birds just fly together. And I don't see white birds often in the sky. They were logically called seagulls, right? And I didn't tell her that. And I noticed the moment where my mind went and wanted to be like, oh, two white birds. And I just let that go. And I wasn't, you know, I didn't plan to tell you that. I only share that because that was the specific example that you just mentioned.
Justin:
[1:22:36] But then it's like, hey, do you want to think yourself out of it? Do you want to think yourself more into it? For me, I'm the type of guy where it's like, you just see certain signs and then it gets to a point where it's like, am I really going to keep acting like this isn't obvious.
Justin:
[1:22:54] And then so what do you do? You don't go run around. Hey, I know everything. Hey, guys, I could tell you your future. Hey, guys, I can do clairvoyance. That's not how I work. I'm more of a guy who's like, yo, if you see it, you see it. If you have ears to hear, you're going to pick up on this message. And a lot of the things that I love to talk about are so raw, I can't even put it into words without using metaphors. And that's almost how I know I'm on to something. Now, knock on wood, right? It's not me who's on to anything. I'm just listening. I'm just hearing.
Tyler:
[1:23:33] Yeah. No, I mean, people are really, they have very specific beliefs about this, so I'll try to be careful as I do this. But Jesus of
Justin:
[1:23:45] He was raised.
Tyler:
[1:23:45] And educated in Egypt where he was exposed to the mysteries. And I'm talking about like he would have known all these symbols. And a lot of what is communicated in the gospel are things that align very well. I don't know if that's on purpose or not, but when you bring up the having ears to hear or having eyes to see, he says things like this a lot. And he said it appears to constantly sort of tell his followers like some folks are just not meant to understand that they're not going to get what i'm saying you know and some of you will and some of you will get it later like you're not going to understand what i'm saying now but later it's and later you know there's going to be a lot of confusion but when i when i said all these things but there's a plan in place and whether or not he was
Tyler:
[1:24:41] like the literal incarnation of God on earth, it's really not something that I'm here to solve. But I would just say like the wisdom in those words that he's expressing, especially in the, in the temple or in the sermon on the mound, um, we're just,
Tyler:
[1:24:57] Great uh this guy is in tuned with the what we would now call alchemy or nature philosophy he he really really understood that stuff and he's not the only one there were many many people along the way who's who either by education or by intuition appeared to know the philosophy that i'm i'm trying to posit here which is just to like be open to the signs of nature be open to hearing what you're going to hear and seeing what you're going to see and maybe you will understand it now maybe you won't some people can't you know maybe they're just in a different path right now maybe they're on a different wavelength but when you you know this podcast or radio ham radio whatever broadcasting offering a lot of different places hopefully you're going to reach uh someone else who can dial in and understand it um i think human beings we're talking about storytelling earlier human beings have an innate to feel understood i think and the more i wouldn't say more but like the further along maybe you are on your path to getting you know getting to being able to explain your personal legend or your metaphors ideas the more difficult it is to find other people who can uh accept what you're broadcasting on the wavelength broadcast
Tyler:
[1:26:17] So being a great communicator i think you alluded to this earlier of being able to meet people on their level you know first in someone in the gym you know everyone hates that guy in the gym who's like hey bro you're dead lifting all wrong you need to do it that kind of but if you could just start a conversation with someone and like kind of like hey how do you do it what's your what's your form what's your ideas you know maybe you can learn something from that too maybe it's not but i know everything maybe they have something to offer you um and i think that's the way to do it for me like i really really try to approach every conversation with the idea in the back of my mind that even if this person appears to be a fucking dumbass i can learn
Justin:
[1:27:00] From this that has to be one of the most important structures to any form of spiritual work. Having that graciousness to understand, yeah, what the quote-unquote fools may
Justin:
[1:27:20] trigger within you is for you. It's a gift. And maybe they may not be teaching you exactly what you wanted to learn, but they're going to show you energetically what you're attached to, the unhealed, or maybe the unclear parts of yourself, and this is what makes the whole world go round, exactly as you're saying, right? Not everyone's gonna hear.
Justin:
[1:27:56] Everyone's meant to hear. And I think that's the essence of, if we go back to the storytelling, the beauty of the game that we're in. Because the complexity within it is just astronomical. But then it can also be very simple. And then even in that simplicity, there are going to be big waves and small waves. There's going to be raging fires and soft, gentle winds. And this is this I really like that you use on that term nature philosophy. I've never really heard that before. But if there was anything that kind of was the foundation to how I see, really, you can let your own human nature and the nature of the external world teach you. Like, the most spiritual game is just being present in every moment that you're on earth. But how do you actually and see i think what my whole message is about is sharing how you can, create that presence right because it's all there but if we're stuck in our own delusions then how are we going to learn as humanity so like there's an there's an art form of cutting through your own bullshit. Yeah.
Justin:
[1:29:21] These, hey, these are the sorts of conversations that I can already feel how valuable they are, you know, like inherently within myself. And I don't know. It's just nice. It's nice to go in depth and have an extended chat where you're just, you know, it's not that, hey, what's up, man? Good. How you doing? Good. Okay.
Tyler:
[1:29:53] Yeah. It makes me, it literally fills me with joy. I love having conversations. and get i i remember i met this girl i don't i don't remember where i was i think i was somewhere somewhere in denmark and we were at a party everyone was like you know drinking and all that kind of thing and someone was just like you know what are you interested in and i just started talking about basically shit like this and she looks at me she's like oh it's all just the the deep questions with you right and i was like yes that's that's the most it's the most interesting stuff in the world why is it why is it so difficult i guess for people to have be conversations but i don't know maybe they're not ready for it or maybe i'm too deep i don't know it doesn't really matter this is just what i enjoy fun it's good see that
Justin:
[1:30:48] That's the fruit though it's right there it's just like okay find those who align with you and there's no need to judge those who are not on your same path right there's nine billion of us or so they say right so there's only so many conversations to be had anyways.
Tyler:
[1:31:12] I'm going to find out, I guess, how many conversations I can have. And, you know, the folks that want to come along on the trip to Mount Doom are welcome in my fellowship. And those that don't want to can stay in the shire and live their happy lives all they want. No one really loses out of that transaction. So whatever. Sure.
Justin:
[1:31:43] There's an upcoming title that I have, and it's kind of like something of the essence of not everyone's going to like you, and that's okay. Find the people who you're meant to work with.
Justin:
[1:31:59] I don't know. I just feel if you approach your life in that way, and it gives you a bit of.
Justin:
[1:32:07] Like, I was just outside and what hit me is, ah, yep, it's the ambitious mind for me, like the drive to get to a certain place that drains me of joy. You know, what gives me the joy is just being here. And, well, what are the actions that lead you to the place of just being, right? Being present. And this is kind of the theme of what I tell people, because it's not like, hey, what I lead with, right, is I've been an athlete my whole life. So weightlifting and just movement, walking, even just hiking in the forest, just very simple things. But I can sense, all right, this like leaves me with a certain freedom. And if each individual can be honest about what that freedom is for them and what it isn't, you know, it's more about learning.
Justin:
[1:33:06] You learn about who you are through noticing who you're not, right? Noticing those moments when you're like in that dark hole that you mentioned earlier. If we're having a conversation, you kind of said it could go one of two ways. And one way is you're wearing that mask and you just want to take that mask off, but it's not the environment to take the mask off. And then that teaches you, right? When you find yourself in those environments or those situations where it's just obvious something isn't clicking, that's how you learn.
Tyler:
[1:33:42] Yeah. It seems like everyone wants to, deep down, be able to take their mask off. But there's so much danger out there that it literally is dangerous. And expose yourself. I mean, look at all the people in the history. I'm just saying, high propensity of being executed for doing so. Like if you have like really really good ideas that are like you know we should all just get along and have world peace and we should work together to go to the moon and get rid of all these deep dark agencies that are taking all our tax money and and using it against us uh just pretty high percentage of people getting shot for or or worse so it's it's something to consider it really is it it's not 100 safe to just be your true self all the time as much as that sounds appealing and i try to embody that i try to just fearlessly say how i feel but i don't know i think about it a lot there's a pretty good chance you're going to upset a lot of people along if you're doing something that changes the paradigm of the way they think people do not like that in mass.
Justin:
[1:35:03] You know what? I feel that, Back in the day, a couple years ago, something I really used to stand on is I'd much rather die on my feet than on my knees. And to me, that embodies exactly what you've just said, where, yeah, I'm not saying I'm going to be full brazen all the time, right? There's a way to sense if there's space.
Justin:
[1:35:33] But then there's also part of me, which is like, I'd love to be that guy. Like, take me out. um, take me out because I was living truly, you know, that's almost more meaningful of a story to me than protecting this vessel. Right. And I know that's a little bit, maybe far out, but it's like, that's the ground which I stand on, which like, if I'm the king of anything, I'd, I prefer to be the king of nothing nothing at all i.
Tyler:
[1:36:07] Always think about obi-wan kenobi right before darth vader kills him and he looks at him and he says if you strike me down now i shall become more than anything you can possibly imagine and i'm like that's what i want that i wish those were my last and come on like this this dude is on something but i'm it's so true it's just like go ahead do do your worst because i will live i will live on i'm not afraid of dying in this scenario like uh gandalf same
Justin:
[1:36:38] Thing you know you shall not pass and.
Tyler:
[1:36:41] Then fly you fools get out of here and then he comes back as gandalf the white he's more powerful because of the sacrifice that he made to stand up for i would say what he believed in who he was trying to protect and what he was trying to accomplish um and that's it takes a lot of guts not a lot of not a lot of people
Justin:
[1:37:02] Can do that.
Tyler:
[1:37:03] You know right
Justin:
[1:37:04] And i would almost say that not a lot of people do it but everyone can do it and that's almost the seed of my work maybe it's like hey you may not be able to comprehend yourself doing that, but find the thing that means so much to you that that is who you are, right? Because if there's something more meaningful than wearing the mask, then you're on that path to being that individual who isn't scared of losing themselves for, more meaningful than their desires, their ambitions, their goals. Sometimes I'll say, fuck goals, but then at the same time, have goals. Set them. Go down that path and just learn through what your life is and what it isn't. And as you travel down different roads, it's only natural that you change. The only constant is change. So if you're vulnerable, I feel real strength creates vulnerability. Now, I would love to hear what you think about that. Why would I say real strength dances with vulnerability? What do you think?
Tyler:
[1:38:34] Uh what what what comes to mind when you say that is when people talk about courage or they talk about bravery you know so i think it's natural for especially like younger people or more more timid people to look at a brave person and say how do they do that and you hear so many people who you would probably categorize as being brave or courageous say i am afraid but i do it anyway and having the ability to when faced with fear when faced with adversity to just do it anyway and accept the consequences that is inherently what it what the definition of courage it's like it's not that i'm not scared that you know somebody's going to be offended by what i have to say or perhaps like maybe their view of me will change in a in a way that isn't conducive to the relationship that i think i want to have with that person but i'm just going to do it anyway and maybe we'll both be better for having done that maybe maybe if that terminates our
Tyler:
[1:39:47] Who I am with someone then that wasn't a very good relationship to begin with you know if I have to wear a mask to be around you then I don't really want to be around you you know and if you have to wear a mask to be around me well then I don't know why like we don't even really have a relationship I just have a relationship with a facade with a mask that you're wearing and so it's not an honest real relationship um there's utility to both though you know there are people that I don't want to have a real relationship with for sure there have been people where it's like okay I'm just gonna put on my I mean my businessman cap or my you know what whatever it is that I have to do to get you know without it turning into something I don't want it to turn into perhaps
Justin:
[1:40:30] You have to do that.
Tyler:
[1:40:31] I don't know but yeah just I think that bravery courage whatever discipline it comes with sacrifice everything worth having just comes with sacrifice period and
Justin:
[1:40:44] I love you said a phrase of the relationship I think I want to have right and therefore it's usually the thing which you think you're sacrificing is actually it's a gift like it's a weight that's dropping off your shoulders and I feel there's a way of um kind of getting down to the root of, okay, I don't know if you know who Dan Coe is, but he builds on some of what we're talking about. A lot of people, they create an idea that they want, but they never figure out that that idea isn't what they actually need. In Rolling Stones, they say, you get what you need, not what you want, and that essence has been said by so many people, and what I really am beginning to see is there are a lot of songs with lyrics that.
Justin:
[1:41:52] Most artists are just sharing their mask. They're sharing their feelings, their projections. But then there's certain songs where it's like, oh man, these guys, what are they on, right? I like how you use that phrase because I'll use that too. Like some people may be when I'm like so energetic and open and just sharing. Like what's this guy on? I'm like, I'm just on energy. I'm just on, I'm not here to cover myself up. I'm on the place where I just can't wear the mask. But like you said, that doesn't mean there aren't moments and environments where it's like, all right, let's just not ruffle right now. You know, there are some times where the message needs to be shared and there's some moments where you're just meant to be part of the team like you said earlier and having the sensitivity to feel those moments I feel that's the game.
Tyler:
[1:42:56] What what is it about your upbringing or what I mean if you're not on something what were the books that you read or the the films that you saw the things that inspired you and create as the person you are now How did you get on this path?
Justin:
[1:43:12] I feel, you know, I would say early on, my family, it was a bit weird. And that put a hole in my heart because I had an image of what a father should be. And my father wasn't who I thought he should have been.
Justin:
[1:43:36] And later, lo and behold, I am now extraordinarily grateful for the man that he is. Specific context is, he had certain incidents. He was addicted to alcohol and oxycodone and different pharmaceuticals. And all that while, he always provided. Like I would come home from school, he would make me food. Wake up in the morning, he would make me... me, like coffee, bring me stuff. He was like a kind man. But there came a point in his journey where he stopped talking and my mom and him got divorced and he just hasn't uttered a word for years. And you know what? That silence, it really showed me something. It showed me, you know, the last words he said to me was, I'm trapped in the prison of my own mind. And it shows me that he has a similar sensitivity that I've been given somehow. Because it's only certain people who are going to say something like that. Like I'm to admit that he's trapped in the prison of his own mind. So that was kind of like the foundation.
Justin:
[1:44:52] After that, I would say stoicism is super fundamental for any young man. Like coming across, I think it was the stories of epic I don't even know how to pronounce his name. But if you look at like Socrates and Epictetus, I think that's how you say it. Just the Stoics in general, they lay a good foundation for any young man. I would say that's a great place to start. Maybe if you like resonate with this message, but you don't exactly hear everything, that's okay. Start with the Stoics. But along Along the path, there's been two books that are super powerful. I would say the Bible's been helpful. Alan Watts has been helpful. Ram Dass has been helpful.
Justin:
[1:45:41] There's one man, Krishnamurti, who's been extraordinarily valuable for me. Besides him, Jordan Peterson is a good stepping stone after the Stoics. Jordan Peterson lays some good psychological foundations for people. But in the later stage, I would say the book, my sister has it right now, Power vs. Force. It's a great book by Mr. Hawkins. and also Reality Transurfing. I think that's by, his first name is Vladimir. In the Reality Transurfing, it's the colorful book right there on my shelf. That, where is it? Right there. Yeah. But besides that, you know, the place that I dabbled was with psilocybin. And I took a lot of psilocybin literally by myself. Literally by myself. All I did, I would stretch and I would just meditate and just breathe. And you know, the mushrooms, what they do is they kind of show you what you don't want to look at, if you will. And when you get good at seeing the things which you've been hiding.
Justin:
[1:47:03] You don't stop there. Because I had this moment where it was like, oh my gosh, I just saw something which I could not ever explain in words. And then I was like, wait, does this mean I'm special? Then I realized, no, you can get this moment through the DMT5 MEO. You can get these moments artificially. But I feel the psilocybin, I like that route, because you're not going to see, you're not going to get any sort of fruit without doing the work. And the work is solitude. The work is being with yourself.
Justin:
[1:47:44] And that was what really propelled me down this route to realize, oh my gosh, life is about consciousness. Life is about shining light on our distortions. And there isn't, darkness isn't bad. You know, darkness is just part of the fact that we have a great storyteller, and that's God. And God's written a story which is so entertaining, right? So, like you said earlier, is Jesus the incarnation of God? I mean, well, he was tortured and killed, so what do you think? I don't know. And that's kind of why I I like that idea of, hey, if I get taken out, I get taken out.
Justin:
[1:48:32] I'd much rather share the message than live in fear of being taken out. You know what I mean?
Tyler:
[1:48:39] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think you're really in danger of being assassinated.
Justin:
[1:48:45] Thank you. Right? I appreciate that.
Tyler:
[1:48:47] I hope not. No, I hope not either. yeah it's important to point out that you know the bigger scale you get with telling people things that they're uncomfortable hearing like you said about the psilocybin mushrooms whatever you know like confronting people with shit that they do not want
Tyler:
[1:49:06] Dangerous uh doing that to yourself can be dangerous like i i always approach conversations about psychedelics like i think there's so many people out there that are just like everyone should do this everyone needs to have this like maybe not uh like the idea that like if every politician would just do a round of mushrooms or whatever like they would they would just have all these epiphanies i am fully of the uh opinion that you're only gonna have that experience if your mind is in a certain place like you could you could have bad trips you could whatever and it could a bad trip can still be things that you need to address that i very much had that experience myself but holy like i've seen people who walk into these scenarios dmt ayahuasca
Tyler:
[1:49:57] Psilocybin lsd you know just marijuana whatever and come out of that experience with like i've learned so much and i need to change and then i've also seen people just do copious amounts of it and end up with either completely the wrong message or just don't get anything out of it other than like whoa man that was trippy i had a good time but and that's the same with life in general you know you could take two people and put them through the same i don't know army basic training or something and one of them may come out from that saying like i i learned so much about myself and i feel so much more disciplined and i'm ready to go tackle person may say that was
Tyler:
[1:50:39] It's just a mindset it's like what do you take from it
Justin:
[1:50:42] Yeah i know i you hit the nail on the head with the you know if you think everyone's supposed to be a certain way please question yourself please like it's kind of this art of understanding who you are while not like getting all caught up in projecting into the future who you are. It's kind of like you take your past, you look at your past without attachment. So that means you just kind of break down, okay, maybe I didn't want this to happen, but what was the meaning behind that happening, right? You just ask certain questions as neutrally as you possibly can.
Justin:
[1:51:33] Same thing with the girlfriend situation i was talking to you about earlier it's like hey some things aren't pleasant but can you sit with the fact that it feels unpleasant and still be neutral like just accept the the bad things in your life because there really isn't good and bad it's if you are going to sit with the moment then you're either going to have an insight a adjustment in your behavior um a new nugget of information in terms of could be very plain it could be oh for example i kind of purposely but it was a game i triggered my sister a few weeks ago because she was spewing something. The last words I said to her, I was like, that's just your perspective.
Justin:
[1:52:28] Minutes later, I walked into her room. She was mad, sad, almost crying, yelling at me. My logical urge was to walk out of that room, to not like be there. Intuitively, I understood she felt a certain way. I'm not judging her for feeling that. I'm just looking to understand her. So I just asked a few questions, I'm like, oh, so when I said that phrase, it made you feel that way. And then she kept talking, kept talking. Tyler, within five minutes, I was just on my knee. She was smiling. I had my hand on her leg. And she was like, oh, don't take that personally. Sorry about that. And I was like, no, don't worry. We're a team, you know? And it's like that sort of essence where you're going to trigger people, right? But can you be gentle and kind enough to hold the space for them to let out what got triggered and i think that's really the essence of this game where it's like yeah sometimes you're gonna cut people down and then sometimes you're gonna give them the nutrients the water and everything they need to regrow you know what i mean if you will.
Tyler:
[1:53:39] I i love well i don't like being on the receiving end i have many many many times right like where it's you know someone tells me something that's really uncomfortable and i have to come to the truth you know come to grips with what it is uh down south we call that a come to jesus meeting i love those um but i once you get through several of those for yourself where like someone imparts something on you or confronts you with something that's really difficult to come to come to terms
Justin:
[1:54:08] With you get the opportunities later.
Tyler:
[1:54:10] To give that to other people and i see it as like a gift where you really upset someone and then you you get to kind of like inside smile and say like you'll thank me later and you can be confident in a lot of cases that that'll be the case where it's like i know this is hard but pretty sure you know things like with with dads a lot of the time that's what the situation must be
Justin:
[1:54:31] My dog's going.
Tyler:
[1:54:32] Crazy i think there's a mailman outside i hope you um but where you can you can like confidently know that that person is going to maybe six months down the line come back and say like hey i really appreciate that you said that to me i meant a lot i i have personally had that conversation with a lot of mentors that i've had i think of one specifically her name was a master sergeant she may be a senior master sergeant now ashley gordon and she was just a lovely person but she would every single day come out to where we were working and like individually person like how are you what did you do this weekend what are your plans going forward what's going on in your life all that kind of shit and i fucking hated it i was like this is just leave me alone you don't even really care like I'm trying to work here you're distracting me and like I had that for years and then after I got out of the military I
Tyler:
[1:55:28] And I found myself doing the same thing I would go to every person's desk and leave a little sticky note or something if you need to talk let me know whatever I was always like that and then I realized like that's where I got it from I got it from her so I called her on the phone and I was just like I just want to let you know like I all those years that I was just like fuck off you still believed in me and you still checked in because you cared and i learned from that and i'm better for it and now i see the reason why you did that so thank you and those are really important revelations to have i think
Justin:
[1:56:10] I love that you shared that that is it's a home run It really is, especially the fact that you despised it, right? That's the essence of learning, though. It really is. It's like, I remember listening to Leo Gura, one of the earlier guys who just kind of helped me out a little bit. And there were moments where he would say things, and I'd be like, but he said so many other things that I resonate with. I'm like, is this, what is this going on? And he would say things, and that would happen. And I'm just like, okay, well, this is obviously someone who is intelligent, who I align with. But then sometimes there are moments where I disagree. So is this about me being right, him being right? And then that's the learning right there, is when you have those friction moments, seeing how they arise. And usually, usually it's like, for example.
Tyler:
[1:57:17] You get a
Justin:
[1:57:19] Sensation, right? You're walking down the street and maybe you have a smell and that smell will remind you of a memory, but this happens in light speed. So then your memory, which is pith, your memory's packed with past knowledge and experiences. And then you start thinking, right? But it all started from just a sensation that reminded you of a memory, which the past experience unfolded within. And as your consciousness begins to expand, it's like the whole light speed process of that slows down. And then you're more aware of, oh, wait, that trigger came from that memory. I literally watched that sensation arise within my body or my mind, my heart, my gut, my three centers.
Justin:
[1:58:17] And then you can get in tune with the processes which you used to be unconscious of, right? And I think this is the game. This is real religion right here, like making your subconscious conscious. And this is, I wrote a tweet yesterday somewhat along the lines of, demons are God's employers, or the demons work for God. Meaning that God creates the darkness, the triggers, so that you can have the things which are hidden inside of you be released. And this is also kind of what the mushrooms do too. But it doesn't stop with the mushrooms. See, and I think that's the problem with psychedelics is people think they've achieved something because they had a certain moment. It's like, no, my friend, that's when your work starts. When you realize that you had contact with something beyond your ego, which is probably the storyteller of this entire planet, then your work begins because you have this enhanced sensitivity to notice things that are unconscious to others. And right, the whole essence of our conversation here has been, you know, sometimes you got to be the team.
Justin:
[1:59:38] Sometimes you're going to get mad at the lady who's doing something great for you, even though she's doing something great for you. You're not aware of it yet, right? And I think that's where the compassion comes in. It's like, okay, I see something. You may not see it, but you might see it. So why would I ever give up on you? You know what I mean?
Tyler:
[2:00:03] Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. You're reminding me of Søren Kierkegaard, the Danish philosopher, but he had this—actually, I would be interested if we could bring him back from the dead and have him talk to Jordan Peterson, because they have very aligned ideas of finding your religion, your connection with whatever it is that you call God, and centering yourself around this sort of relationship that you have with something bigger than your own ego. Because it doesn't it just doesn't seem to work at scale or even you know for an individual person to just think they have all the answers themselves like if you're not open to learning from a teacher whether that be a person that you meet along the way you know a bird that you see fly through your garden in the after this difficult conversation if you're not open to learning then you're not going to get any better than you are.
Tyler:
[2:01:07] You've made a really beautiful analogy when you're dealing with psychedelics or something like that. It's like, Does the utility have to do with what you're experienced or does it have to do with how it affects what you're going to do after the experience? So, I mean, for me, it's like I've had some of these moments where I'm outside of my own ego and I'm like really in tune with something. And I see a symbol, like, I don't know. One time I was like, I had rented a house out in the mountains and there was a statue of the Virgin Mary that I just like latched onto. And I was like, that's been there the whole time. What does that mean?
Tyler:
[2:01:52] Like, why is it that in this moment, in this particular mind frame that I'm in, that is what I'm focusing on? Why is that bringing so much of my attention? Why is that demanding so much of me right now? and i could have walked away from that experience and forgot about that but instead i think even after the fact now when i see a statue or anything that has to do with the virgin mary consider what does that symbol mean to me and what was the lesson that i was meant to learn from having had that experience and that doesn't have to be while you're under the influence at all like it just be in general it's just sometimes i guess for a lot of people if you're especially if you're like really deep in your like in behind your mask it's a good ticket out of the you know the station area and it's like it's the episode of spongebob where he's stuck in rock bottom and the bus keeps passing him every time he goes closer to the candy and the answer is you don't need candy right now that's what this that's what he's trying to tell you or that's i don't know the storyteller is like the candy is not the answer the answer is for you to go talk to the guy and you have to speak to him on his level because he's also at... That's why he talks like this.
Tyler:
[2:03:09] And...
Tyler:
[2:03:11] Story has that no matter how like high or low the level every story that a human being is some eight sense of like i am trying to communicate something in my soul in a way that you can also understand otherwise i'm just screaming into a void here and being alone is like the worst right intellectually spiritually like loneliness is probably one of the worst things you could do Now, there are times when you should willingly subject yourself to loneliness so that you can confront things. You talked about Christ, you know, like going into the desert for 40 days and then he's confronted by the devil and tempted to forgo everything. He's like promises him the whole world if not go through with this whole getting crucified thing. But then he makes the decision like I'm going to go through with what is the intention of my father in heaven for me to go through. To accomplish this mission that i'm on um and that story is more powerful than had the story not occurred
Justin:
[2:04:17] When and i think the the beauty of what you're sharing there is you we just talked about spongebob and christ in the same topic right i think that that's the beauty What did.
Tyler:
[2:04:34] You just say? Same guy. They have the same qualities.
Justin:
[2:04:39] Exactly. It's like the message is everywhere. It's going to show up in different forms continuously. And right for a young man, it may be exactly that SpongeBob version. Like, if you are trying your ass off to catch that girl, and you can't catch that girl, maybe it's showing you that your attention is on the wrong thing, right? Then it's like kind of funny in people who are learning and adjusting and listening to source, whatever we call it, that you get the things which you wanted through dropping the need, dropping the fuel, which was chasing them. Like, for example, this is good. I like to tie it back to sports because i was never good at football until muscle memory clicked in then junior senior year i was like team mvp good good football player same thing is happening now with jujitsu position.
Tyler:
[2:05:51] Did you play
Justin:
[2:05:51] I was um an outside linebacker and that was where i did the best but kind of like a nickelback. So we had a backer system because I'm only like six foot and I was probably like 160 pounds in high school. So I wasn't like, you know, a six foot three, 225 MLB middle linebacker, but more of a, all right, corner. I started as a cornerback, but long story short, it was like, once I stopped thinking and once I was just comfortable being on the field, that's when I began to shine right when I was like okay I don't have anyone to impress I'm just gonna ball out I'm gonna do this thing the best I can and, that that same looseness is coming into jujitsu too and like what's the lesson it's like if you really want that candy if you really want to get rich.
Justin:
[2:06:48] Saying don't get rich, not saying don't be clever in relationship to passive income and finding ways to create wealth that also give you free time. But maybe you're on a certain timeline. So how about you learn to be patient, motherfucker, right? And that's like a message to me, especially myself, because there are things that I can see. There are things that I can feel. And it's like, Yes, but be patient. Be patient. And how do you do that? I think that patience comes to you when you're open and you realize, oh, wait, the bus keeps passing me by. Oh, yeah. Oh, silly me. I got hooked into that other vibration again, right? I got hooked into that seeking, that chasing. But if you're rocking and rolling, you'll have the conversations you need to have, right? You'll meet the people you need to meet. The opportunities that you are meant to work through will be presented to you. But, and then I'll end off this with the Latin definition of abracadabra is I create as I speak. So if you take this work and you put it into a moment to moment thing, that means you're aware of the thoughts you have. You're aware of the words you speak. And.
Tyler:
[2:08:12] That's also the
Justin:
[2:08:13] Message of religion too. It's like the same essence is there. It's like bringing a almost godlike awareness into the way that you operate this vessel. Easier said than done, maybe.
Tyler:
[2:08:31] I got a shout out to Jonathan Peugeot from the Symbolic World podcast because that's an amazing podcast I think everyone could learn from. But everything is symbols. Everything presents itself in some sort of symbolic resonance. That's how we understand things. And, you know, it could be that when you're on that football field or whatever, it's like the team logo that you all sort of like unifying understood but unspoken sort of value that everyone clicks to when i was in the military you know the the core values of the air fourth you know what whatever it is the team the the your squadron's mascot or your you all have chance that you do or whatever it is but those are symbols and those are how we interface with reality you know human beings going back to what i was talking about earlier if you don't have a if you don't have a exact representation of something in your mind represent for something that you can't understand um hopefully and when you're confronted with a symbol that you don't understand you don't you don't recognize it and then when you learn what that means then you see it everywhere that happens every day you learn a new word right abracadabra whatever that you know
Tyler:
[2:09:52] Someone someone who just heard you say that let's never thought about what it meant before and now every time they see it they're going to think about right um you you go buy a new car you go buy a new gray kia and then you the next day you go out driving and you realize there's a hundred everyone has the same car as you oh i didn't even notice that it's just that it's in your mind now it's there and it doesn't really go away you can i mean i guess you can get out of practice or things fade into memory, but it'll come back. It will recur to you.
Justin:
[2:10:24] I feel like a good question here is... Some of the ways that we can simplify our relationship to the symbols which are presented to us? What would you say?
Tyler:
[2:10:39] I don't know if I'm the person to give that answer. It's just how do I do it?
Justin:
[2:10:44] Let's look at it together, right? Yeah, you start, though. You start. Tell me how you perceive and kind of break down the symbols that are presented to you.
Tyler:
[2:10:56] For me i think like most of my life it was purely intuitive thinking like i wouldn't put two and two together i would more just like kind of see something and then make whatever i made up right so i think i was just naturally kind of good at seeing opera but i reached a stage and i can draw another analogy i learned the guitar uh by ear i i didn't know how to like really read music and you know none of that stuff really resonated with me like learning particular scales or whatever eventually i reached a point in life in my guitar journey where a friend came to me and he's like i think he would really benefit like studied scales of music theory for a while and then i got like a lot better very quickly by adding that to my repertoire now that doesn't necessarily mean that i think i should have started earlier with that i think i'd gotten up to a certain point and then i now i needed that next part and the way that i developed playing created my own my style which i don't know it's not that special but it's like it's the way that i play and it's the way that i I like to play and then adding those other tools.
Tyler:
[2:12:11] Jump me up to like super duper level quickly in the same way with symbols i think going so long with it being intuitive and then later like in my late 20s getting into studying things like alchemy things like philosophy uh looking more into you know ancient egypt or mystery schools or Freemasonry or whatever happened. And especially for me, the tarot changed my life. When I started studying tarot, I started seeing symbols everywhere because originally you look at, I don't know, the fool card or the chariot or the tower, and they invoke a feeling in you even if you don't know what they mean. But those are universal symbols that you know all the time. You know it's just once you've gathered your interpretation of it and then you also cross compare that with what other people make of it you start to see it more for what it is maybe you don't see the whole thing but you have a better grasp so now when i see the tower i think of babylon and i think of this is a situation where things are going to be like a foundation that you thought was built being destroyed because it's imperfect it's a much more specific
Tyler:
[2:13:37] Intuition than it was when i was just going off of like oh i see a tower like being destroyed like i think of 9-11 but was that not just the tower in its in the language in the language of the tarot happening in real life uh-huh you
Justin:
[2:13:55] Know sometimes you can't make up this but you just you can feel when things hit home on different levels and what you just said there about tower being rebuilt because it was imperfect like that just hit me on a on a you know sound effect level i'm I'm not going to word it out. Just go boom. Ultimately, it really is fascinating. I'll share, I'll build off what you just said, right? Because I asked you a question and you share the answer through a story, which is often going to be the case when the question is a good question. Yeah. It's like, you know, if I asked you shit questions, you'd be like,
Justin:
[2:14:41] okay, yeah. Three plus three equals six. Got it.
Tyler:
[2:14:44] Uh-huh.
Justin:
[2:14:45] But if we're talking about like real honest things.
Tyler:
[2:14:49] Then you got to
Justin:
[2:14:50] Tap into something beyond your memory. And that's what stories kind of help do. So I remember being in school and, you know, nothing caught my attention, but you know, one thing that did pyramids and in history, I never really understood. And I still don't know, but I don't know. I feel like I used to be some form of an Egyptian, some form, some way, somehow. Now I'm not going to attach to that, right? But it's just like the way that my mind works and the things which hook you, right? The symbols which hook you. I don't have to logically understand why, but I can just kind of feel, okay, like I'm just going to let these symbols guide me. Like, I don't need to logically decipher, okay, this means this, right? Okay, so when I do this math equation, then this answer will come out to be exactly 3.7892. I rather bring a looser essence into the relationship to symbols, right? Because if you try to logically decipher for symbols, then you can kind of get into the mud, if you will, right? Like too much thinking, too much projection.
Justin:
[2:16:16] Just like one of my favorite quotes is the truth is shown to you that and the moment i'll re-say it the truth is shown to you the moment that the question is asked and that means it's just oh you feel it you feel it and when you said that tower thing there was one of those moments i just felt it.
Tyler:
[2:16:39] I
Justin:
[2:16:40] Know i don't know exactly what it means.
Tyler:
[2:16:42] But it hit home the i mean the the story of that just harping on the tower i don't know that that card comes up from every single time that i like confront something about myself like that's one
Justin:
[2:16:56] Of the symbols.
Tyler:
[2:16:56] That always to me but um actually for here's another story when i was uh first in the air force i was going to be and i went to i mentioned california earlier and i'm studying arabic at like the defense language institute and it was the single hardest school i'd ever been through i'd never been bad at school until and i had this moment where i'm sitting in class we're all of my teasers from were from iraq and the the like dialect we were learning was iraqi and there's this chapter in the book where you flip over and it shows you the city of Babel which is still in Iraq and the tower there that they call the Tower of Babylon and it occurred to me in that moment like if it weren't for that fucking tower I wouldn't be in this stupid you know and that recurring symbol has just kept coming back kept coming back to me and one of the interesting things about it is that it occurs in the bottom the the story of the tower babylon the people are trying to build a tower to heaven and god scrambles all their tongues and they all are different it also has to do with and in some of the more recent i think crowley's deck especially depicts it
Justin:
[2:18:15] It has more to.
Tyler:
[2:18:16] Do with the vedic godic goddess shiva in uh hindu where she is this goddess who consumes everything you know everything that is built must be just specifically because everything that is made by man is not perfect and so it cannot be left it has to be consumed destroyed and then rebuilt over and over and over again and that is like sort of the cycle of us getting better and better and growing as a race.
Tyler:
[2:18:48] I think learning stuff like that. When I was a kid, we didn't fucking learn about Hindu. They didn't teach us that in school. They didn't teach us that in church. It wasn't something that was going to come up. But then realizing, having those realizations that many of these stories that do occur
Tyler:
[2:19:07] Have equal or equivalent or very similar, maybe a different take on the same principle just broaden my perspective even more and make me more confident in my interpretations of like the stories that i'm hearing the symbols and the life that i'm living all of that stuff adds up um and i've always felt bad for you know folks that i know who seem to not have that natural curiosity out and i don't know if that's because i'm like am i just maybe lucky or if i'm just more open to it or if this just this is just the path that was was given to me to to be exposed to these ideas and try to put them or you know is is it the other people who only have one particular perspective and they can have confidence in that perspective maybe they're on to something that i'm not on my fault for not picking and sticking to it and just making myself more and more confused. But for me, it's just been a total enlightening journey the whole way. I've never regretted learning more about these things from whatever source that I get them from.
Justin:
[2:20:21] There, it's that same thing as if we make everyone have mushrooms, that's like, what? Like, what? It doesn't make sense to me. And it's the same thing as kind of what you're sharing with, okay, so that may be your path, right? Maybe you're lucky. Maybe the others are lucky, right? You know, this is interesting because we'll bring in the quote, ignorance is bliss, and then we'll tie it back to, you can only ignore something until you can't ignore it any longer. So with the essence of what Shiva's about, what you're sharing, it's like, yeah, ignorance is the first tower. And maybe not everyone has been freed of their ignorance. but naturally there are some humans who seem to be a little less ignorant, right? And it's interesting because it's like sensitivity, awareness, awakening, following your truth, alignment. It's like a double-edged sword. Why? Because you're more sensitive to your own ignorance But that sensitivity to your ignorance is the gift to lose the ignorance.
Justin:
[2:21:46] But you know what? In the process of your consciousness expanding, it feels harder. Life feels worse. But things have to get worse before they get better. Hence the rebuilding of the foundation. Continuously, continuously, continuously. Continuously.
Justin:
[2:22:06] Know. I have no idea how humanity is going to unfold, but maybe there will be a time where there is. The homeostasis or the baseline of human consciousness is no longer ignorance, right? And now, so I love to play with percentages. It's more of a marketing tactic than actual truth. I'll say like, most people this, or 90% of people don't understand, or I'm not really meaning that, But it's a great way to do that thing which you were talking about earlier, right? To kind of trigger people. But I know in triggering people, it's a gift. It's like, yeah, you may hate me right now. But in five years, you may be like, oh, wow, that guy who made me angry, he was actually on to something.
Tyler:
[2:22:57] Oh, yeah. Yeah. i was thinking how like the word ignorance comes from like the i meaning to negate but like gnosis in greek you know knowledge wisdom understanding this is really important in it it it seems that the point here or at least for me is i want to understand more and more and more and i want to get to a point where it's like i'm at peace with my understanding i don't know if i'll ever get there but the journey is at your same point um but when it when you get right down to it the reason why people are listening to your podcast is feel like you something and if something that you confront them with is difficult to understand and they're learning from good
Tyler:
[2:23:53] I can't tell you how many times especially when I started show people have written to me and said like i really appreciate something that you know i i only listened to your show of the game stuff but then you exposed me to this considered somehow they're all connected it's following the same thread just kind of took you out of this particular world in that episode or whatever all of my interviews even with game development i really don't in general just like tell me about your game and why did there's that there but it's like what is it about you of our choice when you're talking about um
Justin:
[2:24:35] The way that we.
Tyler:
[2:24:36] Interface with reality you use the term a lot when you're talking about life you say the game and i do like that analogy i don't know if it's necessarily the actual nature of reality but looking at life like it's a simulation like it's a um i plan to dive even deeper as i continue to have more and more you know psi research and paranormal people on they're tapped into really well um but like if you're if you're making a video game and you want someone to understand what they're supposed to do you have to give them directions right and a lot of the time that's going to be in whatever your native language and then people are going to have to like have it localized you have to oftentimes pay a translator to localize that they'll understand right so start in english may not mean anything to you change the word nintendo geniusly a long time ago implemented this principle just using basic simple symbols that are sort of universal so like when you go on your computer and you want to save something you don't necessarily look at the word save s-a-v-e you look at the and even though we don't use floppy disks everyone knows no matter what country you're from that means save right
Tyler:
[2:25:58] There are all sorts of plenty of that stuff the logo coming from the Greek logos for every company that you're looking at on your little I don't know maybe you have Steam Spotify none of those have words on them they just have a symbol that you associate with the Zoom symbol the Discord symbol the Google Chrome symbol the Nike logo all of this stuff puts an idea into your brain without and the design of a lot of these, specifically Nintendo games, but anybody who's a student in school is going to think, a game will train you to associate symbols with what you're supposed to do. It will train you, like in many cases, a level designer put, I don't know, a particular color on a certain pathway that is the correct way to navigate that. Consciously, you may not realize it, but you're following along. It may be an error. It may be that you see a door that requires a key, and you know you have to go to the key. But making those symbol associations is how people learn, and it's how they network digital space and our reality, which could also potentially be a digital space. But who knows?
Justin:
[2:27:15] Because what that screams to me is, honestly, it's profound and it's beautiful. So how can we communicate in a way? I think this is part of the art of communication, is learning how to not dumb down what you're saying, but how to communicate simply. And that's kind of where we have to take a step back and look at the complexity that is packed within labels. Like you really won't hear me use certain words like narcissist or neurotic or I don't know, just labels that are, those are labels that I first heard from Jordan Peterson really, right? He's more of a clinical psychologist And I like to use very human words Like light and dark Natural, artificial, You know what I mean? Like there's a way.
Justin:
[2:28:26] Turning your message or the way that you speak into Nintendo's universal language. And now, of course, what is hidden within that is a universal language for who, right? If you listen to Krishnamurti, one of the guys who I was kind of talking about earlier, when I first started listening to him, he put me to sleep. I would literally like I don't know what was happening but my energetic capacity it was like I was listening but I couldn't understand what he was saying but I knew I had to understand what he was saying it was like that and I kept having to like pull over because and this would never happen to me before and I was like am I like just eating the wrong food or something but now I'm so sure. It was just that the potency of what he was sharing was so through the roof that it was like my physiological vessel was getting tired because my consciousness was being spoken directly to.
Justin:
[2:29:38] And I try to do my best to share the message in a way where, hey, if you're deaf, I don't expect you to hear this, right? And that doesn't mean you'll always be deaf. But if, and also if someone's listening this far, you're obviously not deaf because you've been intrigued enough to stay this long in a basically three hour episode, right?
Tyler:
[2:30:06] Or they're reading the transcript, but yeah.
Justin:
[2:30:09] True, true. But either, right? Nonetheless, some form of curiosity has been piqued. I don't know. I'm just, I feel whatever field you're in. Now, you may need to use very specific labels in certain contexts, right? Let's say we're in a business meeting, high level. We're doing stuff, executing. Okay, let's talk business. Let's use those very specific words. But in this, like, heart-to-heart, human-to-human game or communication, like, can we be loose? Can we be sharp? Can we be strong? Can we pull some jokes? Can we tell some stories? Can we show that we're vulnerable? Because I feel you combine that vulnerability with simple language, then I think that increases the likelihood that people's ears open up.
Tyler:
[2:31:06] Maybe. Think of Malcolm X and his message to the grassroots where he uses the phrase like we want to talk right down everyone here easily stand and though that simple
Tyler:
[2:31:19] Phrase is very profound it's it's in the very beginning of the song cult of personality by a living color but you were talking earlier about how music can like really hit you and you're just just sampling that guy's speech uh in that moment kind of sets the tone for what the rest of that song which is about cults of personality joseph stalin gandhi mussolini it brings up everyone in it it's like the greatest challenge i think of anybody who wants to be an influential or or tell a story or to just get through to another person even at the most personal one-to-one relationships is being able to get the other person to understand what because there's really no there really isn't any situation where i've said everything i have to say and that's you don't understand it you're just wrong or you just you just don't get it it's like i always try to put it on me it frustrates the fuck out of my wife and my mom listen to me i'm always like if if i reach an impasse i won't just be like i'll oh hold on let me try to explain it in a different way until we've all probably very annoying but for me it's very i need to feel i need to feel like i have done a i have done my part to do a good job to make sure i understand what it is that you're telling me you understand what it is that i'm trying to tell otherwise
Tyler:
[2:32:48] I feel like it's just a i won't say a waste of time but a failure to communicate a communication breakdown to throw led zeppelin
Justin:
[2:33:00] Really, that is superb. It's one of my favorite things to do as well. How else are you going, right? What are the other options to blame them for not understanding? I don't see that to be an option, right? To get frustrated because I didn't be precise enough? No. Oh, give me another shot. Let me say that another way, right? I, that is, it's fun. It's fun to have that humility and grace with yourself to be like, oh, maybe I didn't put it at their level. Maybe I didn't use the right set of words there. Give me another shot. That's beautiful.
Tyler:
[2:33:45] But it's also frustrating because a lot of the time what I get met with is like, we heard you. It's a constant. my wife is probably going to listen to this oh you son of a bitch but it's true and we have this all the time where it's like you you say you understand and then you prove to me later in the conversation i'm not saying that you're stupid or that you're like anything it's just that you say something that proves to me that what's here what's in here and i'm pointing at is not actually getting through maybe intellectually you understand the words that i said and maybe the words sufficient enough to communicate what i'm actually trying to get across here um and the art of doing a podcast doing conversations like this is that you have to constantly get better and better and better at it like and especially if you do your own editing at least in the beginning stages every podcaster try to do every public speaker whatever musician like do your own editing because you'll hear every mistake you make, you'll hear every time that you repeat a word over,
Tyler:
[2:34:54] There's a there's probably a specific word for this but it's not coming to me right now but your verbal distractors you will become very aware of them and it may not be that you need to change them but being aware of them because sort of naturally overcome them or come to peace with them if they're not something that you intend to change which is fine too um and that can be very profound as well it's
Justin:
[2:35:17] Like change isn't something that you desire change isn't something that you force. But if you do pay attention to what you create, and editing is a good practical format for paying attention to what you've created, quite literally, but energetically too, right? If you say something in a certain way, you know, we could take that frustrating moment of where it's obvious that someone through their action or through their words isn't, communicating that they clearly understood you, else they wouldn't have said that or done that action. It's like in that moment of frustration.
Justin:
[2:36:08] That's where you find the strength to be more accurate. It's like, right, if I blame them for not understanding me, then I never edit or adjust or change or adapt. If I'm honest and I look at myself, then, and this is really the simplest way to communicate the essence of the spiritual work, is it's just about looking at yourself. It's just about having the space, the leisure, the lifestyle, which allows you to be honest about the moments which you've created something which feels inherently wrong or inherently foggy. However you would like to describe that. But it's like there are moments, days, weeks, months, even years, right? This is why I like the seasonal perspective too, where it's like, oh my gosh, like high school Justin could have never predicted I'd be who I am now. That was a season, a stage, a cycle, right? And oh, this is good. This brings me back to the symbols, right? The symbols for me, it's like spirals, themes.
Justin:
[2:37:22] Patterns, you know those things that it's like you're trying to act like it's not you're trying to act like it isn't a coincidence but it's or maybe i messed up the words there i guess what i'm saying is it's just really obvious that something feels real right and when something when something feels real, you can question that, you can bring skepticism to it, and see where that leads you.
Tyler:
[2:37:59] How did you become aware of this podcast?
Justin:
[2:38:04] Um... It was just kind of natural because what I was doing is I'm shooting the messages to a specific list of people in the niche, right? So since you have the spirituality in your niche, I kind of filtered out the emails that wouldn't align with me. And then I pay attention to the details of what the podcast is about and then I shoot my shots. And yeah, so before I keep going, just tell me more of what you're wondering.
Tyler:
[2:38:53] Well, it's almost two sides. On one hand, I'm wondering, was my marketing successful? And on the other hand, it's like, I wonder what specifically brought you to the point where you were like sending me an email saying like
Justin:
[2:39:07] Hey you know.
Tyler:
[2:39:08] Be cool to be on your show or whatever because you know some people it's like i mean if you're i don't know linkedin marketing looking for things that align with your values and you're like hey and see you know cast your net and see what kind of fish you bring or
Justin:
[2:39:23] Was it like.
Tyler:
[2:39:24] You heard an episode of the show and i don't know it doesn't really matter one way or the other it's more like mile and curiosity.
Justin:
[2:39:32] What got me was, so the structure is that I'm doing some outbound, and you responded. And from that response, then I was like, this guy's open. Let me look into him. And as I listened, I'm like, this is literally, man, I went to a certain point in one of your episodes, and within three minutes of listening, you had touched on with your guest one of my favorite childhood memories of going over to my neighbor's house and playing the split screen, the Smash Bros, the Mario Kart. And when I heard that, I was like, this is worth a go. So, yeah. The context. And I mean, you could say, well, what does that mean? I just say, I took it as a symbol. I took it as a simple symbol that you and I come from a certain place of resonance. Just the bare bone fact that we were both playing split screen Smash Bros and Mario Kart. And from this whole conversation, I can see, again, it's worthwhile to trust the symbols. Because this has been.
Tyler:
[2:41:00] I don't
Justin:
[2:41:01] Know how to put it just a joy.
Tyler:
[2:41:02] Yeah man no it's interesting how people get connected and I'm not gonna reply to every cold email I get because especially so much if you have CEO service pitches and what not crazy but I genuinely really respect the art of the cold email people who are just like shooting their shot seeing if they can get you know in touch with the right people whatever it is i've been on the other side of that plenty of times especially in marketing trying your best to connect with people who share your values and you could mutually benefit each other it's a good way of putting it um so yeah that's it's actually really cool you found it that way i think the episode you heard um we were talking about you know like split spring split screen co-op and and like the old days of him him playing mario kart his family's back with his sisters but yeah that's something that's lost i think in gaming today that we don't have that anymore most of most of the co-op gaming online through like discord more it's more adolescent kind
Justin:
[2:42:17] Of thing the.
Tyler:
[2:42:18] The days of sitting in the living room with your having those shared experiences seems to be largely gone um and it's something that a lot of people feel really back to the world um and i don't know if that's possible i worked on a project where that was like the explicit goal was to try to make that happen and i'm just like the zeitgeist is not in your favor doesn't mean you can't do it it just means that really up against a cultural wall when it comes to trying to design things around parameters around that intention
Justin:
[2:42:58] Be tough um when you come against those walls like where where you you have you ever heard of the game runescape oh yeah yeah so i i love that game and i remember when i was like a bit older maybe in high school or community college days i like i remember trying to play the game again and it always, I'll have this with movies too. Like I'll be like, oh, I want to do that. I have an idea. It sounds good as an idea, but when the time comes to actually like consider doing the action, I'm like, oh man, I just can't get myself to do that. And that's almost my relationship to video games nowadays where it's like, I love video games. I like want to play them, but I, I don't know. Maybe just not right now is the season. That's like the perspective I have on it. And it's like, you know, I think you've done a great job in letting your heart guide your career from what you were telling me earlier and how this all unfolded for you. I feel like...
Tyler:
[2:44:13] You too, man.
Justin:
[2:44:15] Thank you. Thank you. like it's you find yourself in places where i could never predict that i'd be having this conversation especially on more of like a video game centered podcast but at the the same time it's like oh but you're realizing too it's not just about the first person shooters you know from everything we talked about and, This is kind of the key to life, is seeing your attachments, seeing your preferences, and then having the humility to question,
Justin:
[2:44:53] like, is that what I actually need, right? Or is playing video games just what I want to do? And now to anyone listening who likes playing video games, I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong. Not. Just be honest with yourself, right? Your heart will show you. Your heart will show you.
Tyler:
[2:45:10] I'd say if you're playing games and you're getting something positive out of it, like improving the
Tyler:
[2:45:17] Story or it's making you a better problem solver
Tyler:
[2:45:21] Just having a social life, whatever that is but it certainly can and I've had it can consume you, like anything if you're up every night, you're not sleeping enough and you're playing Dodo with your friends and drinking Code Red Mountain Dew and you feel like shit and you're uh reconsider how much time you spend playing seems so simple but it's true um and there's a lot of that really um it's been one of the more interesting anthropological journeys of really getting because i wasn't like a gamer until i got into you know like i played games and stuff but i wasn't like a video game center i still not really my life is not my career largely and i do enjoy games it's not like who i am but learning about the people who that is their identity and what makes them tick and why them positively and negative has been very enlightening because it's a oftentimes a type of person and it's a you know if you're if you're escaping reality into something that seems preferable to the reality that you live in on one hand that's nice that you have that escape and on the other hand it's like what can you do to improve your don't spend all of your drinking code red mountain doing eating like my cheetos on i don't know right
Justin:
[2:46:49] It's like you you might you might be in that reality to a point where it seems like destructive to imagine anything but playing the video game and then that's like God showing you like, hey, you have some space here. And this is why I'm not a huge step-by-step or method guy or do this tactic. Whether you do cold turkey or whether you just play a little less, like Tyler's recommending. There's a lot of different routes to making your life smoother, more joyous, and ultimately.
Justin:
[2:47:35] Say there are some simple universal laws. I remember, I specifically remember my aunt, she would always let me come over and my mom wouldn't give me junk food, but I could have junk food when I went to my aunt's house. And I remember playing Modern Warfare 2 split screen with my cousin, like potato fries and donuts. And I was like, why do I feel so bad? I remember my intuition just I like felt sick and I just couldn't logically put two plus two together and nowadays I can kind of just feel like like after this we have this great conversation I'm going to be outside for at least 15 plus minutes at the very least I'm going to take this dog for a walk yes I think I'll take my dog for a walk too right because I can feel that's another great one. That's a great one where animals will show you what you need to see yourself. Every time my dog isn't doing anything, he looks sad. Every time I take that guy outside, he look happy, right? Simple man.
Justin:
[2:48:50] And if you can make your life simpler, so I'm not saying don't play video games, right? But if you pay attention to the food you eat and how that food makes you feel, very practical, Very simple. If you pay attention to how you feel when you go outside, and see, this is where it can get tricky, right? Because if your life has been unhealthy, and you got comfortable with the unhealthy life, and then you do something healthy... Your corrupted baseline may pull you back into the comfort zone. That's the demon, bro.
Tyler:
[2:49:32] That's the demon trying to get you. Right.
Justin:
[2:49:35] Right. Exactly. And, you know, we create those demons. We're the ones who are crafting our lifestyle. And that's part of this consciousness expanding is like, hey, if you got yourself. Like for me I remember always being in good shape in high school and if I could never I was I thought my life was hard and I was in good shape and I wasn't fat I remember saying to myself I cannot imagine ever being overweight like my life is already this hard how could I ever be overweight and it's just like so wherever your homeostasis your baseline is at right now I just urge whoever's listening, if you're still listening, be open to change. Be open to crying. If you are at a point where you look at yourself in the mirror and it's hard, it's going to get better, but you may have to let things get harder first. And that may be admitting to the things that you were avoiding for so long. You're not bad for that. There's nothing wrong with noticing that you have to change. So that's where it's like I love to deliver the hammer, but also with compassion too, because I know how it can feel to be like down on yourself.
Tyler:
[2:51:03] I mean like you bring up like obesity and stuff that's really difficult that's a full-blown lifestyle problem it's not as simple as like I mean if you everything is a lifestyle problem especially with addiction when it whether your addiction is like eating too much food or drinking too much alcohol smoking too much whatever you know maybe it's exercising too much because that's also a thing you know there are definitely people that I have been very close to who are like addicted to being in the gym all the time are you really like improving or are you hurting yourself through this obsession and maybe that i think balance is everything if you if you are running until you know uh what's that guy um david goggins david goggins is a self-destructive person like if your knees are falling up run a little bit less it's not that big you'll be but you know he seemed he seems like he has a good mindset like he's punishing himself i don't know what it is to him about but you don't have to you don't have to hurt yourself
Tyler:
[2:52:13] If you're if if working out for you is just like going on a 15 minute walk and that's you know 15 minutes you have to spend away from your uh baldur's gate campaign with all your homies you'll probably be better at boulder's game from having done that like you'll you'll everything else will like align around you being healthy um whatever it could be anything and there's so many traps there's a trap everywhere you know there's too much of a good thing is a bad thing too much of a bad thing to be a good thing sometimes you don't know but just balance like stepping outside of the immediate moment and that's the definition of hedonism it's like when you're constantly just thinking in the short term like what is the long-term thing for me what makes more sense like i know that if i spend all night playing baldur's gate the next morning i'm gonna wake up late for my podcast i'm not gonna get shit done my wife's gonna be upset because i'm not spending enough time with her because i catch up on work and it's just better if i go to bed on Do I do that every time? Hell no. Sometimes I play Baldur's Gate all night. You know, try your best. Right?
Justin:
[2:53:24] Yeah. I think that's a perfect place to leave off because, like, if anything, that's what this conversation should leave you with is balance. The fact that... Is black and white. Maybe some of the things we said hit home. Maybe some of the things we said are going to hit home in a few years. Hey, that's balance, right? Maybe you're in a bad place right now, but you needed that bad place to get better. Hey, that's balance. So is the place really that bad where you're at right now? I don't know. Go outside. Go smell something. Listen to the things that are beyond your internal thoughts, right? Listen to nature. Just watch your stream. Watch water move. You know, if you're just so used to living life a certain way, see if you can uproot that. Question. Question your lifestyle. I mean, I still have to do it. We all still have to do it, right? I like tobacco.
Justin:
[2:54:27] I know that sometimes my jujitsu cardio would be better if I didn't like tobacco. Well, right, I got to look at that. I'm not going to judge myself, but I am going to be honest. Like, hey, right? And I think this is the game. Noticing like, hey, I'm not perfect. I don't have a goal to be perfect, but there are things that will change about me. And I'm not going to force that change, right? I'm not going to say, uh, or I'm not going to like over attach to change. Like the exercise example is so good as well too much of a good thing is that really good appreciate each of you listening genuinely.
Tyler:
[2:55:13] Um just remember folks there's no situation that can't be made worse so just try to do better and that'll that'll be a lot a lot better than staying where you're at could be worse um thank you justin for reaching out that especially the folks listening who want entrepreneurs of their own if you're thinking about uh first of all go check out the energy alignment for entrepreneurs podcast and then uh maybe they need to reach out to you maybe you can help them um if you need anything from me just reach out you have my email i'm always at your uh disposal this
Justin:
[2:55:51] Was really fun absolutely like what a conversation i don't know if I've ever had a three hour plus conversation before.
Tyler:
[2:56:01] You should do it more often.
Justin:
[2:56:03] Yes, sir. I will take, I mean, it is such a, um, how do you put it? When time, right, when time distorts and you have moments where it's like, wait, okay, 30 minutes felt like three hours and then three hours felt like 30 minutes, you know, that's interesting. There's something there.
Tyler:
[2:56:27] Take care man take care talk to you soon
Justin:
[2:56:32] Speak soon man.
Tyler:
[2:56:39] Much to Justin for coming on the show man that was really fun uh deep stuff uh make sure you're checking out his podcast it's on all the places that you can listen to them energy alignment for entrepreneurs dissolve stress and anxiety and all that other stuff it's out there and they're pretty short so give it a listen give it a try it helps even just having it in your feet helps as I said earlier thank you to all the magnificent people who donate to our patreon every month you're awesome and if you would like to also be awesome you can be by simply going to in the cute.com forward slash support and joining our patreon or you could support in some other way you can uh you can give on like the coffee thing or you can send like a tip or you can just you know uh tell your friends how much you love this show that's the best thing that you could do and i would appreciate it if you did uh oh yeah you could buy me a book too
Justin:
[2:57:41] If you want.
Tyler:
[2:57:42] And my amazon wishlist is on there for for books same same rewards if it's a if it's a good book and i'll try to read it as soon as you send it um also we have the list of like books and stuff mentioned in the show on our webpage for this. So if you go to IndyCube.com and just find their article I'll have links to all the stuff that we mentioned in the shows. Full transcripts.
Justin:
[2:58:08] Show notes.
Tyler:
[2:58:10] Timestamped show notes. Also on YouTube and stuff. I think there's chapters in the feed. At least on certain apps that
Justin:
[2:58:17] That works on. Should be.
Tyler:
[2:58:19] I hope so. It better be working. Let me know if it's not. Uh. Oh yeah. Join our Discord. discord.inthekeep.com I
Justin:
[2:58:29] Love you God.
Tyler:
[2:58:31] Love you stay in the keep
