Steve Mera is a parapsychological researcher, author, media personality, CEO of Phenomena Magazine, and member of the enigmatic Project Doorway - a research effort to understand concentrated areas of 'high strangeness'. We're discussing his efforts in psi research; ties between paranormal, crypo-zoological, & UFO/UAP phenomena; the nature of recent 'disclosure' events, and loads more!
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Chapters
00:00 Start
1:51 Journey into Anomalous Phenomena
5:40 Personal Experiences and Their Impact
7:10 Scientific Approaches to UAP Studies
10:26 The Language of Phenomena
18:45 Understanding Replication in Paranormal Studies
24:00 Exploring Telepathy and Communication
29:34 The Connection to Ancient Beliefs
35:02 The Influence of Blood Groups
38:06 Myths and Legends of the Anunnaki
45:08 Personal Encounters with Entities
52:05 Identifying Higher Consciousness
1:08:51 Geomagnetic Anomalies and Their Significance
1:18:12 The Limitations of Human Perception
1:26:53 The Nature of Cryptids and Symbols
1:35:06 Fear Generation Phenomena
2:02:34 The Role of Belief in Phenomena
2:27:41 The Influence of Media on Disclosure
2:57:02 The Challenges of Documentary Filmmaking
Transcript
Tyler:
[0:00] The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions
Tyler:
[0:05] of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if we are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
Tyler:
[0:40] Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet. They govern us by their qualities of natural leadership their ability to supply needed ideas and by their key position in the social structure whatever attitude one chooses toward this condition it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives whether in the sphere of politics or business and our social conduct or our ethical thinking we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons, a trifling faction of our hundreds of millions who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces, contrive new ways to bind and guide the world. From Propaganda by Edward Bernays. Copyright 1928.
Music:
[1:51] Music
Steve:
[2:16] So my journey started within this subject at a young age, having an interest when I was at school, actually. My father had quite a number of books on the subject. So I started reading things like Eric von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods, Inside the Flying Saucer, all sorts of different things. Whilst my friends were reading comics, I was looking at them.
Steve:
[2:42] So fascinated. and as time went on i wanted to choose a path um where i could obtain more information and advance my studies and so i went to university and did a number of um different courses qualifications psychology and so on and wanted a better understanding not only of human perception but how people's minds work cognitively in regarding when experiencing phenomena um so in the early days you know i had a number of mentors i was introduced into the subject of what back then was referred to as ufo phenomena more so now uap uh terminologies changed somewhat over the years and i also i never stayed within the subject of ufology i also wanted to you investigate and better understand the subject of anomalous phenomenon generals, which introduced the paranormal, cryptids,
Steve:
[3:53] Earth energies, ancient sites, all sorts of different things.
Steve:
[3:57] So before you know it, I was kind of involved in all sorts of different subjects. And I started writing for television many years ago. And one day I ended up in front of the camera. And, uh, and since then I've done probably around about three or 400 TV shows internationally. Um, I lecture around the world. Um, I also tutor our UITC course, UFO investigators training course, um, uh, also around the world, and it's also digital content as well. I'm the owner of Phenomena Magazine, the CEO, which is a free monthly magazine, which can be obtained from phenomenonmagazine.co.uk, which has been running about 17 years. It's a free magazine, comes out every month. And it's really to break down those barriers so that we can network better across to other countries. It's distributed in 12 countries and a number of languages.
Steve:
[5:00] Uh so basically 360 i do a lot of the investigation i'm involved in quite a number of projects and filming projects as well as conducting advanced research um i work with a number of people one of which has already been on your show believe barry fitzgerald who was a colleague of mine yes sir um i've worked with a number of people and um i continue to be involved in a number of high-profile programs and projects, and I'm also a member of a number of international think tanks. So that's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Tyler:
[5:41] It's just quite interesting that you kind of got it honestly in your childhood through sheer research and reading books and such. I think a lot of people have some sort of experience before they turn to this.
Steve:
[5:54] Yes. I mean, I won't shy away from that. I did have experiences when, started when I was seven years of age. I continue to have experiences, even today, even up to current times. It didn't disappear in my teens, as people mostly said back then. Don't worry it'll all disappear in your teens when you start getting older and your biological changes take place and you start getting interested in in other things but that wasn't the case um I am an experiencer people who with me experience the phenomena I experience um many years ago I would have considered that not talking about personal experiences because it was initially thought that being a researcher and active investigator, that you might be biased in regarding your conclusive information if you're an experiencer. However, I don't think that's the case. I think it does, the attributes, it does help. It does give you a better understanding of what people might be experiencing. So I can certainly look on my experiences in regards to assisting other people.
Steve:
[7:10] But I've really headed in more into the scientific area, advanced UAP studies, paranormal mechanics, trying to gain answers as best we possibly can.
Tyler:
[7:23] It was very profound. You mentioned that I'd already spoken with Barry, but just kind of digging into what you guys have been doing with Project Doorway and some of the, Some of the things that you've brought to light, or at least perhaps resurfaced, might be a better way of looking at it, is tying all this stuff together. You had mentioned how you began with more ufology-oriented study and then kind of tied it all together. When I look around the space and I see someone who is a specialist, what's that old saying about the specialist specializes more and more until they are observing absolutely nothing at all?
Steve:
[8:01] You're very very just very true tyler that does actually happen i mean you know what lots of people have claimed to be experts and i always say look the experts are the ones flying them you know i
Tyler:
[8:14] Think it's uh it's absolutely incredible though how you know someone could be open-minded to the idea of bigfoot and then if you bring up ghosts a bit like oh that's a bunch of nonsense i'm like come on.
Steve:
[8:26] Yeah exactly it's it's no different really i mean from the research that we've done now right across the whole scale of all all topics they're all interconnected the evidence points out if you dig deep enough but the problem is is this we were dealing with this compartmentalization of these subjects and it's not been helpful it's been a endurance if anything people in the ufo camp wouldn't deal with the paranormal guys and vice versa the big fuck guys would definitely deal with nobody you know so you have to try and conclude in the little box that you're working in and that's it doesn't always help because sometimes the answers lie in a different subject and when you break down and compartments of different subjects and look at the subject as a whole, like phenomenology, as we call it, then you start to see associated actions and connectivity between the various topics where you think, okay, well, it's the same thing.
Steve:
[9:32] And the aspects of research done in parapsychological circles, which I've been involved in, ties in to a lot of the other things in different camps. And the problem is is that each each compartment has its own name terminology gets twisted up but it's the same phenomena it's just might be turned something different and what you really do need to look at it as a whole to kind of try and get a better understanding of what truly this phenomena represents
Tyler:
[10:04] I think a lot of it comes from, especially when we're dealing with cryptids or, you know, what a lot of people would call the famous monsters, ghosts, is that, you know, people will experience nearly exactly the same thing and name it something different. And then, so when you're trying to, back in the day when we didn't have global
Tyler:
[10:23] communication, people just had their own names for things. Then as we began to see especially in the last i'd say 100 or so years the conglomeration of people communicating doing more and more research whereas you would have the japanese version and the the scandinavian version and the south african version now it's it's beginning to be more and more clear though they overlap so much there are so many things that like oh this is the same phenomena with a different name and viewed through a different cultural lens or even expressed in a different linguistic lens.
Steve:
[10:57] That's exactly right i mean you across the ball called different things many different names cultural aspects even spiritual aspects beliefs they all come into it and of course when you start to realize that breaking away from the terminology and names and just looking at the core phenomena it's been experienced you start to see yes this is exactly the same thing that people have been experiencing on a global basis and for a very very long time this phenomenon is age old um as barry said i do actually believe this he's been with us right from the start if not prior to be honest with you we might be the new kids on the block who knows but um one thing is for sure the more we're researching now we realize that there is a ritualistic, esoteric, occult
Steve:
[11:51] Connections with this source of phenomena and that source of phenomena can be delivered in different ways which we go and take and put into these categories be it ufo be it paranormal or other um and that's the problem you know we're we're sifting through and putting things into boxes when really we should have just been looking at it a whole communication now it's a lot easier now we have the internet we know that there is a lot of disinformation on there there is also So it's helpful for, you know, it's a resource, an incredible resource tool for you to be able to communicate on a global basis. So we get to find out data a lot quicker and things that we would have probably never found if we were going back to the 30s when, you know, when I first started in this, when I just had to rely on going to the library, you know, and then there was only like, I think, 15 books on the subject when I was in there, you know. So the world has changed, and with that comes new research and new technology.
Steve:
[12:58] And as we push forward, we're realizing very quickly that if you've specialized in the subjects of parapsychological experiments, which I have been, and paranormal investigation, and uap or ufo phenomena and the cryptid disturbances encounters experiences then you see a connection between these in the format of the mechanism and this is what we refer to as paranormal mechanics it's a it's a very specialized form of conducting investigation where we're looking at particles of information on how the phenomena ticks so we don't the word like phenomena and paranormal and all these it's just too big we got to break it down we got to look at the mechanism we got to tear it apart and look how it ticks and when we do that we realize that there's a certain amount of profound physics it's involved in these incidents which match up to things that have taken place in other subjects. And that's the commonalities, the paranormal mechanics across the whole board of these various topics.
Tyler:
[14:13] Do you find, coming from a psychology background, that conducting experiments to try to find an empirical solution, to a hypothesis can be more difficult in this field as you don't necessarily have a result that you can measure?
Tyler:
[14:32] I come from the meteorology background. I told Barry this as well. I was a synoptic analyst for the aircraft. Oh, yes. So I viewed... Satellite imagery at the huge continental scale across oceans and everything. And one of the fun things about weather is that you can always make the joke, oh, it's not really science because you're not doing an experiment and getting a result. But then I would posit, well, you make a prediction, which is your hypothesis, and then whether or not that prediction is right is your experiment. It's just that God is the one pulling the levers and not you pouring the chemical.
Steve:
[15:10] Well, yes. Yes. I totally understand where you're coming from regarding scientific endeavors. I've been involved in a lot of scientific work and experiments, but one of the downfalls is that most people will think is that if you can't find it, therefore it doesn't exist. There's a lot of information, a lot of tests, a lot of experiments that don't go into the public domain because it's an ongoing thing. It's closed circle or it's only distributed to other scientific establishments where we share information. Some of those experiments, in any case of scientific and dairy, you would need replication. That's what science wants. It needs to benefit us to it. It needs replication. Now, most people say, well, you can never replicate the paranormal.
Steve:
[15:58] But that isn't actually true. You can replicate the paranormal. Under certain circumstances, we have to use, sorry about that, we have to use certain types of equipment, We have to use certain types of people, some of which are catalysts, and we have to conduct certain experiments in a certain manner over a period of time to gain a positive conclusion on what we're obtaining and then sustain it. The sustainability is usually, that's why it normally falls foul if you don't or you're not involved doing this, the way we do our methods. Um but we do have replication and we do continue to do those studies but a lot of it isn't in the public domain um some things have been released which we've put out um experiments within the scientific establishment of power psychology um the phenomena project was listed we've put things out little bits and bobs um though that we do have you know data sheets and things like that but they're shared. They're not usually for the general public. There are some...
Steve:
[17:12] Experiments documented that we've been involved in that haven't been released to the public domain because they're ongoing and sometimes we end up pushing and pushing to the point where the data keeps continuing so the information keeps growing and we end up back and forth with sharing information with other scientific establishments in a kind of skiff situation, in closed-door situations, which led me to being introduced and being invited to a number of international think tanks in regarding where our position is in regarding our work and how it ties in and is associated to other people's work at the high end in regarding various different types of phenomena. So yes, there is replication. There is some incredible things. It's very difficult for people to sort of just suddenly take on board if they haven't been on the journey.
Steve:
[18:18] And some of these incidents which we've witnessed are quite unbelievable, which means that we've got to take a better stance and understanding about the world we live in, the reality we experience, our expanded consciousness, which is very much associated to contact type experiences, and the alteration and manipulation of a perception, the deception by phenomena.
Steve:
[18:45] It gets very complicated. There's lots and lots of things that are involved. But it is fascinating, and we are taking steps forward. In certain areas, we are advancing. It's just that most people are usually stuck on the train going round and round where it's just i don't know paranormal investigations just simply going into somebody's house and taking a camera and asking some questions um you know there is the entertainment side the factor to this and of course there is the scientific work that's being done in the background so the two completely separate issues uh subjects really are taking place simultaneously
Tyler:
[19:23] Right but the fact that you know when you turn on the television and giant haystacks and fit finley are not actually beating the crap out of each other that don't mean that people can't fight that there isn't real fighting and it's the same thing i i always think that when i watch a lot of a lot of the stuff on tv which by the way is extraordinarily popular that that's what's so interesting about this to me uh in the world of paranormal investigation on television it's so popular and yet, it's like a silent majority of people have been told you're not allowed to you're not allowed to talk about this you have to pretend it's fake and of course there's entertainment but there's also, real stuff out there people are relating to this entertainment because they have relatable experiences or they've been told stories at least by someone else that they they're like oh there's something to this and i think that we have uh maybe since the industrial and scientific revolutions gotten a little too far away from our intuition and a little a little too much.
Steve:
[20:26] Yes absolutely yeah i mean we we have to understand now that
Steve:
[20:33] Individuals with expanded consciousness is a key element to contact type experiences and when I talk about contact type experiences I'm not just referring to you know NHI non-human intelligence which is a new reference I'm referring right across the whole board because it's the same thing we're experiencing it's just the perception of it alters but like I say the effects on the human brain, the areas of the human brain which are affected through close encounter or traumatic paranormal experiences, is affected because of our perception alterations being forced, and it affects the brain. And we can see the results in the brain from those experiences. You know, we are slowly but surely breaking it down, looking at the biology of the human who has these experiences, the blood group, their experiences through life, the perceptions,
Steve:
[21:32] Heightened cognition, and consciousness is the main thing. And it's always an element in there. And we're realizing that phenomena is reachable through consciousness. There have been many experiments over the years. However, we've got to also not kid ourselves that we are not in control of this, that we are completely and utterly puppets on the string to the phenomena. They have
Steve:
[22:09] Obtain information from the experimenters. So basically they know what we're thinking. These are experiments that have been done when communication with NHI through advanced seance circles because that was where they first originated, you know, long before the 1961 alien abduction of Betty and Barney Hill. But people don't really want to get into that because, you know, it's like, oh, it's seance, it's paranormal, you know, it's occult. And that's where they first manifested. And it's the same process, but we are literally puppets on the train. We cannot ever consider that we would be in control of this. We're totally down to them. What they want to share, what is true, what is deception, of course, we have to filter to go through process like that. But every single thing or every form of that contact, there is expanded consciousness that's involved. So this is why some people might go through life never experiencing anything and there's usually reasons for that and then there are some people which will go through life with a just with a an expanded view of reality which incorporates a multitude of phenomena interacting with them over the whole generation two generations of families in some cases
Tyler:
[23:33] The the recent podcast the telepathy tapes and i think the upcoming documentary regarding that you know that study as well is quite.
Steve:
[23:41] Fascinating with so
Tyler:
[23:43] Many people who i think prior to hearing it believed in telepathy but were afraid to talk about it and i think that's a lot of people that regard for telepathy is just one example but just believe in something that they can't allegedly
Tyler:
[23:58] prove and then won't talk about it because they've been.
Steve:
[24:01] Told yeah yeah well in investigation and telepathy going on for many years there's been some very good results um and equally there has been you know in projects that have been failed you know just not worked um because it really falls down onto the individuals you know this isn't one way you can just go out and pick randomly 10 people on the street and come and do some tests. You know, it's about certain type of individuals. And once you realize that key, then you're basically on a heading to more successful results. And long-term results have been found in children. But telepathy is the same name as transplacement in parapsychological circles. It's exactly the same phenomenon. It's just referred to as transplacement,
Steve:
[24:53] Where the information is bypassing the eardrum. The eardrum's not rattling because it's not harmonic. And it's internal. It's affecting the cochlear part of the ear, the inner ear, where vibrations down the ear canal where liquid is and hairs is interpreted into language on the inner ear. And this is where the areas of our brains are affected by phenomena for communication. It's done throughout the parapsychological tests and noted. And it's referenced as telepathy in other cases. I mean, especially in abduction or contact cases, the most people will always say They communicate as like some form of telepathy because I heard their voice in my head. But of course, that reference isn't used in the past psychological experiments. It's used as transplacement, which is exactly the same thing, to be honest. You've just got two different
Steve:
[25:50] references, two different camps again. And that does cause confusion in terminology, of course, when you've got the variations, but it is one of the same thing.
Tyler:
[26:00] You used the term confusion in terminology, and I think that accounts for something like 90% of human problems going all the way back to the Tower of Babylon. But just our inability to, I could say something that's true, and then you could misunderstand what I mean. Yeah and then you cannot just sit here forever arguing one of my favorite debates of all time it was uh sam harris the the famous skeptic and uh jordan peterson and they argued i think for two straight hours they never got past the definition of the word true or truth and it's outstanding because i mean they're so very intelligent men you know for for in whatever regard whether you agree with their ideas or not but just the the fact that they couldn't agree on the definition of truth uh.
Steve:
[26:44] Just that alone
Tyler:
[26:46] Extrapolate that out to everything if i if if you were describing uh you know a case and you're telling me this is what happened and i misunderstand one word now we've got to stop define our terms try to come to agreement on that and then before long everything just ends in a misunderstanding in a lot of cases that's what that's why i like the rigor of science because we do have terminology that you've been bringing up Well.
Steve:
[27:11] Yes. I mean, we do have to have that benchmark. We have to have some level that we're rigidly working to, and that's that scientific process. However, we've got to realize that we've got to get out of the box that we live in. And that box is the box of reality, because our brains create the, and the consciousness create the reality that we live in.
Steve:
[27:36] And we've got to be able to expand that now we're living in the box trying to get out the box
Steve:
[27:41] And it's not so very easy unless you have expanded consciousness to get out
Steve:
[27:46] of the rigid box that we refer to as reality. And this is when other things can be introduced, which people will experience,
Steve:
[27:55] Multitudes of different things. And one of the main things is the metaphysicality of phenomena right across the board in the paranormal subjects, in the UAP subjects, cryptic subjects. Is it would seem that they are not bound by our physics. They are outside looking in as opposed to us in the inside trying to get out and they can manipulate the physicality depending on what they're, you know, who they're encountering, you know, what person's having their experience. You know, I mean, we have paranormal cases where there's reports of apparitions and things like that, which will seemingly walk through walls and at the next minute they can pinch you or prod you in a physical sense. So that's a metaphysical aspect of power and all. It's also seen in poltergeist disturbance as the metaphysicality of our port phenomena. We see metaphysicality in the UAP phenomena where the contact cases, the abduction type incidents, where they walk through walls or they come through the ceiling and then they can physically manipulate you. So the metaphysicality is right across the board, right up to modern UAP.
Steve:
[29:11] And within the top areas of research now, we now know that the UAP, the true phenomena,
Steve:
[29:18] When we say UAP, we've got our stuff up there as well, which is problematic because we wouldn't know what is theirs and ours now.
Steve:
[29:29] But the true phenomena has that aspect of being able to switch. It's metaphysicality. So this is why you might have UAPs seen going into volcanoes, into the ground, into the sea or into water where they don't leave wake, passing aircraft at high speed without any shudders by, you know not being one minute on radio naming it or not because just because we see it we've got to get out of our minds that just because we see it it's physical in our reality we've done tests and experiments and in nhi and communications where they've demonstrated the aspects of metaphysicality where things look to be real and yet you can't pick them up you know tests have been done like that um the data has been obtained they cast shadow you can bounce light off these things as if they're really there and yet it's no physical source to it until they release it until they allow it to be physical in our environment so not only can they manipulate themselves or possibly their craft but items that are in our reality as well
Tyler:
[30:42] I think that it's difficult for most people to think beyond three dimensions. And that's a huge problem when you're trying to explain it. People use the terms interdimensional beings as if that somehow changes what it is. I would just use the example, if you imagine two triangles floating in space, spinning, and at one point in time, the tips of the two triangles touch, and then they continue to rotate, and then they're no longer touching i mean that there could be an intersection between two different things that are not otherwise connected at one point in time yes and that's only talking in four dimensions and we could go way beyond that oh.
Steve:
[31:25] We can we we really do have to look into advanced physics now and there are specialists in in that field quantum mechanics as well that are realizing that the phenomena is utilizing areas of the latest research that we're looking into. And this is where it's down to the mechanics. And we're looking at the mechanics of how it could possibly do such a thing. Because the problem is, is that we are rigidly stuck in this reality and trying to communicate and experience what they might you have you can't do that in a physical sense you have to do it in a in a non-physical sense through expanded consciousness because consciousness can expand out of that reality um but it is pretty hard for anybody to have those physical experiences and experience the the process of being out of our reality and a physical sense it's mostly a non-physical format
Tyler:
[32:30] Yeah it requires a lot you know for of the imagination especially for someone even if someone does experience something being able to explain the experience they had is still going to be quite troublesome if they don't have the vocabulary or even the background to posit what they what they saw um you mentioned you know sensations of touch i think that a lot of people have experienced this and then they write it off is uh it's a it's a hallucination it is a yes you know a tactile hallucination or an audio hallucination people i've known people who are like diagnosed with schizophrenia from having had these experiences and i find that disturbing because it's not like they lack reason it's just they're apparently hearing something we're not hearing the question is what is it telling them um that's also a cultural aspect to that too.
Steve:
[33:21] There really is, actually, yes. You know, in many third world countries, they were treating such illnesses many, many years ago as forms of possession. But what was interesting is that with the shamans, they actually did seemingly apparently heal some of these individuals. So how did they do that if it was just down to medical science? You know, it's very problematic. I don't often get involved in such discussions because there's always, you know, especially sort of come forward and argue their point. Where it's all, you know, it's the science of the mind and it's the auditory hallucinations and things like that.
Steve:
[33:57] But you have to draw a line somewhere and where the phenomena could mask itself to do so very easily. You would not know the difference. You know, if you're hearing something within paranormal terms and yet only a couple of people hear it out of six, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. You know, there is something known as transplacement phenomena now, which we know exists. We've done experiments in that.
Steve:
[34:27] So we can't rule it out. Now, anybody would just say, well, it's just a knowledge of hallucination. You're going mad. And it's easy to think that, but the problem with this is that we've got these, excuse the pun, grey areas, and those areas, it's never been black and white. There's been lots of that grey area in between, and when people came across it, scientists, academics, they just thought, hmm, I feel that I need, through the scientific rigor, of forcing it into the black
Steve:
[34:58] area or the white area, because a grey area they don't want. Even if it's wrong they would did falsely try and fit it in but now luckily you know people are coming forward more academics are helping and assisting um in regarding research into expanded consciousness and how phenomena fits in there and could be manipulating humankind which i think they have been doing for a very long time no
Tyler:
[35:28] Doubt and take the uh the famous case in fatima portugal where the three children believed themselves to be interacting with the Virgin Mary or the spirit of the Virgin Mary. Or throw any word you want to on that, but that's how it's categorized by the church.
Steve:
[35:45] Well, it is. The church will categorize things like this. There was a number of events surrounding Fatima, not just a single event. Exactly. But the Vatican were there filming. They had cameras and things on tripods. Um what they described i mean if it was modern day incident we would describe this as uap and the sun descended from the sky came down towards the ground in fact what you don't get told is that it shot across the people of roughly 7 000 of them many of them ducked to the floor some of them ran in fear surprisingly um
Steve:
[36:23] And yet I've got the photographs, the original photographs from the Vatican, what shows the sun in the sky, which is not the object. We've got the sun in the sky and I've got the UAP, the photographs, the imaging, and the analysis, the Vatican analysis as well. The object itself was casting a tremendous amount of light, probably around about 50,000 watts, enough to cast two different shadows that day, one from the sun which was partially clouded and one from the object and you can see that through the analysis um how people perceive that is usually down to what their belief is or in some cases it's delivered by the phenomena phenomena picks out individuals to perceive something different and that happens even modern day you know i've had three four people that has witnessed the same incident and yet they're all describing a different object you know so you think to so well it was all close experience that they had with this phenomena and yet how can they perceive it so significantly different and i believe the phenomena can do that through the manipulation of perception oh
Tyler:
[37:29] It's very possible to have all the evidence and arrive at the you know the wrong conclusion you know it's the close but no cigar problem i'll i'll give an example to pick on my my aunt rebecca so if she's listening that'd be great but i remember she was uh she was studying And she, she comes to me one day, she's like, you know, I realized now that the reason why, you know, people have different pigment in their skin is where they evolved in relation to the equator. And I was like, yeah, I mean, that's, that's pretty commonplace science now. She's like, and that's why people in South Africa are white. And I was like, close, but no cigar, you know, you're just missing a part here. Um, yeah.
Tyler:
[38:07] It's so interesting, and I see so much of that in the paranormal space where someone will – look, you did that really great episode of Unsolved Mysteries with Don Phillips, right?
Steve:
[38:20] Yes.
Tyler:
[38:21] And the question of, is Becky Becky or is this entity something completely different? And, of course, it presents it to him in the way that he believes. Well, yes. Who's to say otherwise?
Steve:
[38:31] Well, we don't know. I mean, at the end of the day, it all boils down to what your beliefs are. Um, because what the answer is, is a question mark, because if we want to refer to it as angelic, then, you know, um, really didn't turn up to angels, the referencing of angels until around about Ezekiel days. So I'm not really much prior to that. Um, but there's the Nephilim, you know, the fallen ones, the, you know, there's references to them, uh, right back. So intelligences that communicate so what are they are the angelic some people might say oh it's all demonic i know but these are just names that we've come up with it was never originally you know it's um it's down to our belief what these things are even though that they could tell us doesn't necessarily mean it's the truth. Sometimes they won't tell us.
Steve:
[39:32] Sometimes they'll say, I can't tell you that. Sometimes they'll just ignore your question. Sometimes they'll tell you things and you think to yourself, well, how am I supposed to know? What is the point in asking a question when you can't prove the answer? And this is a problem. So all we have is masses and masses of data of what we've been told. And I assume a percentage of it is true. And maybe a percentage of it isn't because the deception seemingly always involved somewhere um it's cryptic sometimes it's like a game um but one thing which is absolute is that it's real it interacts and um it um assists as well on many occasions with don and don is a catalyst don don doesn't need to have becky to be someone special regarding the uh the subject of abilities he's got he's clairgocides clairaudient clairsentient avoidant um he's a bit of a remote viewer he has psychic visions um he imprint he can pick up on things which are imprinted into environments
Steve:
[40:42] It usually sort of many times it's been they reaching him as opposed from him reaching out um it's a regular normal lifestyle for him since he's been an early age however becky came into his life maybe 15 years ago and they kind of cohabite together and um you can try and do as many as experiments as you possibly can but you're still left with questioning you ask one question you want you delivered an information which you think well that's just gonna come up with another 10 questions, you know, when we asked the question about, you know, one of the most prominent things, you know, what about heaven? You know, is there a heaven? And the response was, for those that make it, that's the response.
Steve:
[41:31] For those that make it, there is a heaven. Now that answers from Deliver That, well, what the hell does that mean? Does that mean some don't, some choose to don't? Can you go? Can you come back?
Steve:
[41:43] Ten questions more come from the one question you ask. We've asked many questions and got some fantastic information, some of which we obtained prior to maybe six years later, scientists coming out and confirming what we'd been told through communications we thought well that was interesting so certainly some parts of it is you know it's definitely true but other aspects might not be but it's very confusing it's very problematic i mean it's down to individual belief like now when i say you know barry's barry's side of uh but this is why we work so well together because we have we come from this into the subject from two different sides we meet in the middle we're both very trained and skilled in what we've done for over the years and we have sometimes various opinions but that's good because diversity is certainly what we need in this subject if everybody had conformity and we would never get anywhere because you only got to be wrong and everybody was going to conform with you so you know we just don't know tyler this is the problem we haven't got all the answers but what we can say is we are communicating and experimenting um i have experienced becky it took probably about almost a year of working closely with dom before becky would even allow herself to even communicate with me and um i've experienced becky
Steve:
[43:06] Um just the once in a physical aspect i don't think i'd want to experience that again because it was a an experience that caught me off guard and it was a
Steve:
[43:17] Emotions that don't really tie in i can't explain the emotion because it doesn't really exist until it happens um and it was a a tremendous power feeling a feeling of power through me went through me took me to my knees to be honest with you and it's not an experience i would once again um however in after afterwards it's like thinking well well what is that and uh and how do we even begin to explain it you know so i've experienced a little bit just once from what don experiences and um and around him over the last 15 maybe 10 to 15 years of working closely with him on phenomena projects and the experiments and things that we've been done and and others um we've we've experienced some incredible things um which really is a dream come true for any scientist but no scientist will just be able to walk through the door and clap their hands and and get these things to perform you have to build a relationship and i spent 15 years on building that relationship to the point where there is communications and i'll and becky allows us to conducts experiments you know so whatever she actually represents though is a real big question mark as you probably seen in the show you know it's it's all it's always up for debate
Tyler:
[44:46] Let's take a take our science hats off for a second and just talk about how it made you feel so i mean you said that it was you know overwhelming terrifying powerful do you feel just of your own accord like this was an attempt to compromise you or was it like a warm invitation.
Steve:
[45:08] Well it came about when um don came to me just one day out the blue and he said uh i can be becky's communicated with him and apparently said um she you're ready now she'll she's happy to you know um interact with you and i was like oh right okay well can we do this because i was quite excited and then i heard a voice uh probably about maybe three or four feet in front of me which was um
Steve:
[45:44] Which was a female, and it wasn't so much the voice, I mean, it was a beautiful voice, don't get me wrong, but it was what was delivered with that. What delivered with that was an emotion that I can't express because it's not anger, it's not love, it's not pain.
Steve:
[46:06] It doesn't, you can't imagine it, but what happened was that energy went right through me and my eyes started watering. I struggled a little bit for breath.
Steve:
[46:22] I fell to my knees and I struggled with that. It was a very unique, I never experienced this before, it was short-lived and I'm glad it was. But if that's just a little bit of what the this entity can possess and do then i understand that whatever this thing is which is referred to as becky is not i absolutely guarantee is not your average spirit phenomena or guardian angel or anything of that sort it supersedes all that whatever that be and you know since then you know because we had that i was allowed to be brought into that inner circle um you know it was very difficult it was very difficult for talk for years about that experience because each and every time you know it was overwhelming to try and even go back and think about that you know but um there is no there is no the confusing thing really i can't fit it into my head in regarding what the emotion is because it's not any of the ones that you'd normally experience and understand.
Steve:
[47:41] And the thing is, is that you'd look to do that. You try and fit it into the box. What's that feeling? There is no feeling. Now, I don't know if it's, if it's, the church might say, oh, well, if it's, if it gives it some religious connotation, you would say, you know, it's the, uh, what you felt is the, uh, the presence of God or something like that, you know, or the Holy Spirit or whatever, you know, cause it says you allow the Holy Spirit in. And that's what the Vatican say. But what is the Holy Spirit? Is it angelic, what I'm dealing with? Or is it something which is pretending to be? I mean, Barry Fitzgerald, my colleague, will go down the opposing path and say, he thinks that it could be some thinking guys. And there is always that possibility. I can't take that away from him. Absolutely. But then when I pressed on about this, he said, well, what makes you think you should have the answer. What makes you think that Becky can just perform when she wants to perform? Maybe she doesn't want things known or whatever it is, doesn't want things known. So therefore, you know, it, it doesn't say, you know, um, in for its own protection, it might lie, you know, because it doesn't want, it can't give you the information or it won't do, or it can't do.
Steve:
[49:05] I do know that there does seem to be some governance, whatever this thing is.
Steve:
[49:12] But, and I have to just hold my hands up to Don and say, I understand, you know, who are we at the end of the day to demand that we should have the answers? Maybe we're not. And I consider myself lucky. I'm one of probably very few people that have experienced so many different things, which some people probably never experienced in their life. And I can say for sure they actually do exist, which means that we do actually live in an incredible world where things can happen which are just so profound. You can spend weeks going to bed but just not sleeping in line there, like I did, trying to figure out what the hell I've just experienced.
Steve:
[49:53] Where does it fit into the understanding of life and the reality? It doesn't. you know and it does alienate you a little bit to be honest with you because after experiencing some tremendous stuff you've got to go and do the mundane things you know you've got to go shopping got to go and do certain things that you know you got to you know it's hard to imagine that these things can exist in the mundane world but they actually do and that's what's so profound
Tyler:
[50:23] How do you uh typically go about ascertaining whether or not someone has a uh a greater sense or a higher consciousness an ability to perceive these things or to work through them.
Steve:
[50:35] Well i mean our number difference has depending on who those people are excuse me and um about what tests can be carried out to look for conclusive information. We did tests with numerous different people over the years. Not many people come knocking on our door, to be honest with you. Some of them have and haven't been able to perform. But then I understand that because if you want to go down the scientific route, you'd say it has to be done in a controlled laboratory experiment at certain times. But then if you want to investigate the arctic fox you don't bring it into an experimental room and expect it to act normally sometimes you've got to go where the arctic fox lives to see how it works and and acts in its own reality in its own environment so sometimes we've got a bridge across from the scientific department outward to conduct tests It's halfway between the public domain and a parapsychological unit.
Steve:
[51:41] But there are a number of different tests. I mean, there are surveys and questionnaires. You know, some people might be more of an experiencer through their perceptions, altered perceptions, and that's often tied into high percentages of certain types of blood group,
Steve:
[52:00] Which certain people are, which are usually more sensitive or have expanded consciousness. Than others and it is them individuals that often report numerous experiences or able to do things you know i mean it's if it's not down to psychokinetic or pk it could be clairvoyant clairsentient or clairaudient you know we can we can test for all those things and yes some people do have some unique abilities however what you end up with though with people with certain abilities i mean there's a lot of words about psychics and mediums or sensitives whatever you want to call these people um and i do believe they do have some form of expanded consciousness of course you know you've always got the entertainment side the circus side where you know really it's somebody pulling trying to pull the wool over your eyes yes i get that but there are individuals that are and do have that capability and what happens is is that when And you go and see these psychic mediums or whatever, and usually the situation is somebody turns up and wants to hear about something about a relative that's passed away, be it the mother, the father, the uncle, whatever.
Steve:
[53:17] And what happens is, it's referred to as a spiritual transpositional triangle.
Steve:
[53:23] Now, the phenomena can read all the information from the sitter, the person who has come in to find out information. They're unaware of that, of course, and they can gleam all that information. And the phenomena then, once gleamed the information, can deliver it to the psychic, who has an expanded consciousness to be able to hear or obtain information from the phenomena and deliver it to the person who's come in. That person will hear it and will consider that that's evidence that their relative who's passed away is on the other side and he's okay after life exists. However, we do now know through experiments that transposition triangle can be confused. And this is why past psychological departments will turn around and say, yes, hold the handle if you press them. Yes, intelligence communications do exist. As to what they are remains unknown. Is it proof of afterlife? They'll say no, because they are aware that information given can be information gleaned from the experimenters or people that are coming into the experiment. Or it's deception. And if you have just 1% of that, how can you completely rule that this is evidence of afterlife? It's problematic right across the whole scale, as you can imagine, Tyler.
Tyler:
[54:52] Oh, yeah. And there's the... I think a lot of times it is the clairvoyant, the clairaudient, the psychic, whatever, when they're talking about how they're getting their information, they almost give themselves away in different aspects. Through the words they use, they'll say something. If someone says, like, the spirits are telling me something, of course, they could still be lying, but that's a little bit more convincing than I am the one who's getting this.
Steve:
[55:19] Yes, it takes it out. It takes them out of the scenario, really, in a sense. yeah
Tyler:
[55:24] I think it's it seems to be demonstrable that in a lot of these cases it's something is working through you not that you have you know you have a connection you don't have a superpower, um otherwise i would assume you could do lots of other things and have control of it and understanding of it.
Steve:
[55:40] Yes yes and this is where then when you when you come out of that i mean you have these mediums and psychics and so but then you have catalysts and catalyst is a whole different bono you know when we the list is significantly endless when it comes to don i mean even if we go down the instrumental transcommunication experiments itc or some of them are more referred to evp but it's not evp electronic voice for no when you're conversing and asking questions and gaining response it's not electronic voice for no anymore becomes actual voice for no so it's it's an avp in a sense but um it strings from the old days of spiricom and instrumental transcommunication tests and you know he has when i've been there on recordings um of events that have taken in the past past events a battle siege the uh the bombing of the UK joined the Blitz and many, many things which are regulated,
Steve:
[56:45] They are from a time in the past, which have been recorded, which is done. Um, and apart from that, communications of, with multiple, not just Becky, multiple things. And obviously we, there is also the, um, some of the things, some things which you might refer to as the, the more darker side, um, has reared its head on a few occasions, which, you know, I mean, I'm not stupid at the end of the day. I know where my limit is, and it can be unnerving, but some of those things do exist as well.
Tyler:
[57:23] You had already mentioned a little bit about how certain physical attributes and conditions at least coagulate, I'm using the wrong word here,
Tyler:
[57:35] corroborate with some of the ability to have these experiences or to have an expanded psyche. Um yeah actually in your magazine this month there was a pretty good article about the epilepsy and the poltergeist phenomenon but also blood type uh just a traumatic experience i think is a huge one um.
Steve:
[57:56] Yes well there is a lot of the more research you do you it's a lot of surveys that have to be done um but there does seem to be an association between certain types of blood group for instance a rhesus negative O being probably the most significant I know the rhesus negative is probably around about 15% O being the most profound when it's associated to these are people which have heightened intuition or their experiences or their expanded consciousness whatever um but it's a it's not there isn't as many obviously on the planet and it is still a little bit unknown through science how that blood group came to be we know it's origination from the basque region between france and spain um but it's a bit of an unknown but we do know we do know though if we do research going back about blood groups it seemingly um was known because even if you look at biblical scriptures and documents around about the time of the ark of the covenant and it was documented that there are a number there were three different types of groups of priests which were involved with the ark
Steve:
[59:19] And transposing it and traveling, taking it places from one place to another. And that traversity would often kill people because the ARC was referenced as an ARC. It's A-R-C, not A-R-K. It's not because it was carrying something. It was because the electricity or whatever this thing was it was producing would kill people. It came into contact with it. but those that were best to transpose it from one place to another or traverse it were rhesus negatives and it was a blood group that was tried to maintain by the highest order of priests back in the day in ancient times so somehow someone must have been aware of how to recognise a blood group Now, I can't say they would have had the science to be able to do that. They must have had other methods. Author methodologies would have been expanded consciousness and maybe, you know, profound psychic perceptions, how to identify somebody who was. But they made great effort to keep that bloodline going.
Steve:
[1:00:34] And of course, that in ancient times is very interesting. Now, in modern day times, if you did statistical surveys about the most profound experiences on planet Earth, you'll find that a very, very high percentage of them are no research negatives. And it's quite profound, the reasons why. Because the only difference is that there's a skin that goes around the outer layer of blood cells, which is missing. And it's a rhesus D, it's known as. And it's missing in the rhesus negative O blood for some profound reason.
Steve:
[1:01:13] And rhesus negative people with O type blood can provide blood to anybody. They can donate to any person on the planet, but they can only receive O rhesus negative. So it's an unusuality, but when you look at it across the scope regarding phenomena that people have experienced, you'll be very surprised when you uh for those that do know many people don't know their own blood group to be honest with you but for those that do you'll be very surprised to see how many hands go up when you're asked about their experiences and their blood group you know reasons negative uh surprising uh relationship between them
Tyler:
[1:01:51] For the sake of fun i know my blood group because it's on my dog tags oh yes yes what do we think about the ab positive and negative folks.
Steve:
[1:02:02] Well the a b is okay you know i mean sometimes they are very rare some some blobs are extremely rare right but um when it comes to experience when it comes to people who have had the most profound experiences in the world you'll usually find that they are racist negative oh most of them um and we don't know why we really do not know why of course creativity is is a big issue there as well seemingly that seemed to come in Well, you know, some of these people could be academics and using left side brain, but then the creative side of them, it really comes through. So they're prominent on the creativity as well. So it's quite unusual. We don't know why. Statistically saying the results, you say, yes, there has to be an absolute connection between people who have the most experiences and their blood group because the data doesn't lie. However when you start to ask the questions why is that that is where we fall flat we just simply do not know
Tyler:
[1:03:07] Right yeah it i think it somewhat ties into the vampire narrative or the you know this this thing that wants to suck out your life force if you have less boundary between you know between them and the the source of your life if that's a lesser uh you know cell barrier
Tyler:
[1:03:26] on the blood or something like that i don't know but i.
Steve:
[1:03:30] Don't know but it's significantly different but when you do the research and go back these references you'll keep coming across them that this is the bloodline of the gods goes right back to the anarchy you know and and you think to yourself well why is it the bloodline of the gods what is the rhesus negative and no you just can't get the answers but the data is there but uh we just don't know the reasons why people have those type of experiences more so when they have that type of blood group
Tyler:
[1:04:01] You mentioned Chariots of the Gods earlier which I have sitting on a shelf next to me and then also of course the Twelfth Planet all of that stuff, I don't know how I feel about necessarily being able to read Sumerian but I do find the narrative of the Anunnaki quite compelling if nothing else is a myth and a legend, Yes, I mean.
Steve:
[1:04:24] You are right. And Tyler, I would take it, I would say sort of 50%. I mean, you can look at some of the early transpositions and the information and details that have been put forward
Steve:
[1:04:35] And in those books, you know, it's problematic. There isn't many people, even at that time, that could actually understand fully Sumerian. There are mistakes in there. There are misinterpretations. it's understandable it would be however there is still a body of information that is very questionable now the science guys would like to grab hold of that and take that small percentage of inaccuracies to say you know it's just all inaccuracies um the truth of the matter is though that yes there are inaccuracies and um but at the same time there's a lot of prominent things which have been looked at by numerous different researchers which stand the test of timing regarding being accurate so you know you've got, it's like anything you know you've got bits which are true and probably right and bits that aren't you know but there's a lot of information pertaining to the Anunnaki not just I mean even if you just take away the books, take away the interpretation
Steve:
[1:05:46] And especially Zacharias Sitchin's and And just look at the other things such as cuneiform tablets and images. Because, you know, you look at the images, you know, they did ancient images of planets around the sun. How did they know how many planets there were? You know, how did they reference the sizing? You know, which is accurate. You know, very accurate.
Tyler:
[1:06:11] Yeah. Fondi Anakin makes a great point of that. It's like, how is it that these folks seem to have accurate models of the...
Steve:
[1:06:18] Well, that information must have, yeah, they must have gleaned, the Samarian culture must have gleaned information from ancient past and past on and stuff. They were vast libraries. And do you know what? There are still hundreds and hundreds of thousands of unicorn tablets, which are still never seen the light of day. They've not been interpreted yet, not been looked at. There's so many of them. They were a culture that just specialized in documentation.
Steve:
[1:06:49] Libraries that was their thing and uh these are so vast that you know they're not even put a dint in it to be honest with you but you tend to get the same information circulating all the time you don't get to hear the new stuff but uh it's fascinating you know um so you got to say well okay even the referencing to the blood group goes back to the ananaki days um even up to modern times research is modern research into regarding the blood or that blood group as well you know scientists are trying to come up with answers but might not necessarily get them but the there's but they'll continue to do so because the data says you know that these people are somehow different in regarding how they perceive reality or how phenomena interacts with them maybe that these were the gatekeepers as barry would say maybe these are the ones that uh um were had heightened intuition would deal with phenomena or converse with them or pass information on.
Steve:
[1:07:49] You know there are various different ways of communication techniques in modern times it's significantly different and it was in ancient times they had to find certain locations usually on mountain tops and usually in certain temples usually down to geomagnetic energies where phenomena would present itself on certain individuals and we didn't do would enter into conversing with what is referred to as the gods and uh and gleam information which would be passed on to that society so and that's happened all over the world from thousands and thousands of years ago onwards yeah
Tyler:
[1:08:23] The the geomagnetic anomaly discussion is it was very fascinating to have that with uh barry in the in the research that you guys are doing is it's so interesting because it ties so many things together that i think previously were separate groups of study so there are all these documentaries about the bermuda triangle and the dragon triangle and like the the grids of the earth where you have these geomagnetic anomalies in place.
Tyler:
[1:08:52] And the fact that the Great Pyramid of Giza falls directly in the center of the Earth in its distribution of water and land and called the navel of the Earth.
Steve:
[1:09:03] Yeah, that's the one on the navel of the Earth or these parallels as well, what they reference. But the thing is, I think we've lost our way I mean, I think we'd become dumbed down. You've got to consider our ancient ancestors wasn't poisoned on a regular basis, not through the air, not through the water, not through eating.
Steve:
[1:09:27] In modern-day society, we live in a poisonous environment, not only from what we experience electronically through radiation, various forms which we are bombarded with on a daily basis. We are also a lot of people breathing in what they might think is good air but it's actually quite toxic compared to ancient past um the water the things that we drink the chemicals that are in them even if it's not that it's the chemicals in the packaging that hold them you know everything leaches into us and eventually the long-term process of that might cause us to diminish in other aspects, and that might be our sensory abilities to be able to pick up magnetic energies. Now, we do know that there's plenty of evidence to support that our ancient ancestors were aware and could feel these energies. They may have even been aware of the human, the planet Earth,
Steve:
[1:10:28] 7.2, I think it is, Hertz, this huge human resonance. They may have even been aware of that. you know so we have to say that we've probably we don't have those things anymore and they were aware of where the best places were to build to communicate to have temples you know a lot of these things were about communicating with the gods not god but gods um very like to say the source, and they had methods of doing that. It wasn't always good. Sometimes these ancient places, as Barry would say, some of them were destroyed by the culture themselves because sometimes it didn't always go great.
Steve:
[1:11:13] Um, some places which are still very active. I've been to these places with Barry, you know, some of these locations. And what's interesting is that we've modern day technology now, which we can get some wonderful equipment now, as opposed to many years ago, we can start to use that equipment and see the effect on these various different types of equipment through the phenomena. Even if it's down to um time displacement meters and latency effects in certain areas or gravitational anomalies where phenomena's manifested we believe the fact that the manifestation process be because a lot of ufos are seemingly manifest in key areas and go about the business sometimes they de-manifested and de-materialized one thing what we do know through statistics now and research carried out not only by um the arrow which is the pentagon ufo program but earlier the ufo task force and nasa and numerous other establishments have all now concluded actually did that last year and the year before that they believe that the ufos did not constitute enough evidence to say that they're extraterrestrial in origin and the reason being is that for the amount of sightings seen around on a 24-hour day on planet Earth,
Steve:
[1:12:37] And this is, we have to be, you know, when we're saying being conservative here, we haven't got all the data from all the countries, not all countries participate, and there's obviously a lot that we don't get to hear or don't get reported, but out of those that do, there's thousands upon thousands of these things on a daily basis.
Steve:
[1:12:55] Where are they all coming from? Well, they're not seemingly coming in to the Earth. There's no super highway being tracked in and out might get some bits but no super highway to constitute that so where they're coming from and that's a big question this is what they've concluded and this is why the narrative has to change we knew myself and barry knew the narrative was going to change that we're going to be stepping away from the extraterrestrial and it's going to be interdimensional and the extraterrestrial hypothesis you know and to the nh i and these have been referenced at Pentagon level now because the narrative has to change.
Steve:
[1:13:31] Can't keep going on. We have 70-odd years of this narrative. It don't fit anymore.
Steve:
[1:13:35] And people are getting clever. They're getting equipment. They're doing surveys. With the technology that they have, we can prove that narrative doesn't stand, but it has to change. And this is why the change is happening, which is exciting, of course. We didn't think that we'd see the narrative change in our lifetime, but we knew we had to, and we were surprised it did. But nevertheless, though, we got to know that Prior to pretty much basic public knowledge, we knew that before, knew it was coming, but the, um, The problem with this is that this is the type of phenomenon that could our ancient ancestors have been dealing with. However, in modern day, when we cannot rely on human senses to tell us certain things, we have to fall into the technology. And we have some incredible equipment now which looks at the effects on the human brain regarding experiences. And that's all the work that's been carried out in Project Doorway by Barry Fitzgerald.
Tyler:
[1:14:31] Yeah i um i think a lot i think it's because i'm a game designer but i do think a lot about the the way that digital worlds function and the glitches the modifications that can be made in real time so for the the player avatar in its experience if i as the controller decide in a given moment to change something or to add something or to modify the laws of physics within that digital world suddenly it can happen i can even do that in a given area at a given time or only to certain characters or whatever i'm not necessarily saying that we live in a computer simulation but there's a reason why the vast majority of the world's religions keep giving us the same principle that like what what we are experiencing is a is an illusion or at least it is not all of it.
Steve:
[1:15:24] Right? Exactly. Yes. I mean, he's a very good author. He's a good friend of mine. He's in a lot of good work at the moment. Paul Wallace, his name is. And he's arguing the point, he's arguing the point, Paul Wallace, that have we even misinterpreted God with the phenomena? Because if you look at the phenomena widespread across all its listings of capabilities, it has godly power. My own intents and purpose, it has godly power. From striking you down from a beam of light, which might be referred to as a heaven light that came down from the sky,
Steve:
[1:16:05] To changing and manipulating reality, bending light, you know, manipulating the physicality of things in our reality. We would say when they appear to be, which can appear to be angels, all sorts of different things there's actually thousands you actually list around the world how many types of non-human intelligence are they I'd be surprised if you don't if you get anything under 4,000 there are that many so you can see now how that old narrative that these are different beings coming from various different planets what four over 4,000 different beings traveling to planet Earth from the vast distances of space. NASA's not finding much out there, to be honest with you. There's a couple of interesting things which are on the horizon. But the traveling in craft, which kind of do the same things, a lot of them look the same, they do the same things, and yet they don't get it right sometimes because when people are experiencing these crafts, you know, you've got high advanced technology, but the descriptions are, it has portholes with rivets around. It doesn't make sense because that means that you're having a perception alteration taking place.
Tyler:
[1:17:24] Yeah.
Steve:
[1:17:24] A manipulation of human perception, which affects the individuals. Not when you're aware of it at the time, but now we can know what to look for through Gary Nolan's work on people that might be being affected in their brain through traumatic close encounter or type experiences.
Steve:
[1:17:43] And now there's possibly even a key that when people have that, that they could possibly be passing it on genetically to their children. Hence, their children become to have these experiences. And this is why people say it can run in families. Well, yes, because there might be a genetic side of that, which it's like a door that opens and you pass it on to your children. Once that door's open, then we're really shut, so phenomenon creeps in from time to time.
Steve:
[1:18:12] So we are learning a lot of different things, But I think the way forward is that we cannot suddenly become like the ancestors, our ancient ancestors were, but we have to rely more so on technology. And we do have some incredible technology, which is now revealing the data that we couldn't see.
Steve:
[1:18:31] You know, things that we don't see, things that we don't hear, things that we might not feel. It doesn't mean they're not there. It just means that we're very, very limited. In fact, we're probably the most limited creature on the planet if you compare it to insects or even your pet dog or cat you know and you have to ask the question why are we the human race you know almost opium two you could say have so much limitation to what we experience in life maybe we've been designed in that way that we cannot at any time normally experience those things um from expanded reality entering into our reality and yet so many insects so many animals do so um it's very profound how we've advanced in so many different ways and yet in in our infancy and regarding our perceptions there's
Tyler:
[1:19:23] So many examples of just how even the even the five senses that are ubiquitously agreed upon can be much more than you know we typically individually think that they can be so like hearing you know if you, grow up in a city right and you just hear cars what was all this noise constantly and then you find yourself in a place that's actually quiet or even you know no matter where you're from you go into a sound booth close the door and then you start to hear your own electromagnetism and you can hear your own pulse whereas usually that just gets drowned out in the background either by being distracted or because your brain simply is just dealing with too many things um and if you remove the stimulus no matter what it is oftentimes you can actually sense more than you um if you if you're in a sensory deprivation tank your your sense of touch goes way way way way up far beyond oh.
Steve:
[1:20:17] Yes it really does right you know it's incredible actually i am surprising actually what the results are we don't know but that's in uh in uh deprivation chambers and water chambers even the gansfeld chambers you know so um it's surprising it really is we are clouded obviously but uh a lot of those things are ancient ancestors didn't exist it was quite you know they lived at a time when the air was pure and clean and the water was clean the food was clean you know they weren't surrounded in any electromagnetic energies which was created through technologies um they weren't clouded so much with today's society and they lived in in areas some of them very rural whether in small groups and they're in tune with the land in tune with the energies and in tuned with things from beyond the normal reality should we say so yeah i totally agree with that i mean we can't even begin to understand you know the phenomena and capabilities i mean for an example we worked alongside olympus and because we were using utilizing their equipment in experiments.
Steve:
[1:21:27] And what we discovered was that during a number of tests, and this involved three recorders, identical models, which were all recording for a certain length of time, only less than a minute on each one, all simultaneously. And we could get three different recordings. the first recorded record something different than the second and the second record something different than the third. Sometimes vocal responses are nobody hears at the time yet the vote yet the equipment, the equipment is only designed to record from 20 hertz to 20,000 hertz, which is human hearing.
Tyler:
[1:22:10] Right.
Steve:
[1:22:11] Um, it's not designed to record anything lower infrasonic or ultrasonic because you wouldn't hear it. And what's the point? You know, so yeah, You have to question, we didn't hear it at the time, so therefore it wasn't harmonic. So if it wasn't harmonic, it didn't fall between the 20 hertz to 20,000 hertz, and yet the recorder recorded it. How did the recorders record it? And this is where Olympus got involved, and they said, well, they were having real problems because they were trying to figure out how's the recording end on there electronically. And this is the form of transplacement. Not only did it transplace, the phenomenon uses us as equipment and transplaces to us in our inner ear, but it can also transplace to equipment. And what's fascinating, further tests were carried out where small, large tape recorders were used and recordings were captured on cassette. And yet, sometimes the power wasn't even plugged in. The cassette tape's not going around. And yet, when you take it out and play it, you'll have recordings on it. How did it get there? They even took the recording head out of the machine and it recorded.
Steve:
[1:23:22] Radios have been communicated, you know, with these things and they've taken out the old tubes of the radio. Shouldn't work, but it does. It breaches Faraday cages. You know, the physics that's involved with targeting things to place information on, and including us, is a physics that doesn't fit into our normal understanding of reality.
Steve:
[1:23:43] It goes beyond it. and this is the form of what we do in our studies in paranormal mechanics is the transplacement phenomena which is quite phenomenal even with camera film you put the camera film's not even replaced into the camera it's sealed brand new in a in a in a particular box which is screwed down you can't get to it can't touch it and yet after the session you go and get that produced and you've got photography placed onto the film you know so it you You know, it's incredible what their capabilities are, it truly is.
Tyler:
[1:24:17] There's that old thought experiment about if a four-dimensional being is locked in a prison, it just moves over to a time when the prison wasn't built yet and walks out. And if these things, if these amber gamblers or whatever we're calling them.
Steve:
[1:24:32] Yes, amber gamblers.
Tyler:
[1:24:33] Yeah.
Steve:
[1:24:34] We have a better term, actually, for that. I know that's kind of Barry's name for this, the amber gamblers. This is just for your listeners and big gamblers is um if you look at the subject of uap most of which you will see on the internet now consist of not structured craft some of them are most of them are what you refer to as balls of light right and they're usually orange or yellowy in color amber most of them some vary in different colors sometimes but most of them are that but they do seem to be intelligent they act intelligently and can communicate in their actions so if they're not critical what is it well the terminology for them now is is intelligent light forms some people presume it's some type of plasma life form it's interacting you know who knows but um it falls under the uip of course and of course barry's referred to these as amber gamblers we've experienced these many times yourself and barry and they have interacted um sometimes we've seen structured craft, but the cell phones that we have, and maybe more than one of us there, won't record it. They'll only record a ball of orange light, and yet we're seeing a structured craft. So it's rather that the phenomena recognises and understands the technology we're using to film it, and thus does something so it doesn't get recorded properly.
Steve:
[1:26:03] Or we're perceiving it differently than what the camera is. Somehow the phenomena allows us to perceive it as a craft. And yet the cameras don't operate like the human eye. It's very profound.
Tyler:
[1:26:18] There are so many great metaphors. I'm going to get back to my original point, but while we're on this tangent, that come up in science fiction and even in religious texts where, you know, the idea that God or the alien appears to you in a way that you can understand. Right. Like I've taken this form so that you can, you know, understand me so that you won't panic because you wouldn't be able to handle it if you saw what I really was. Not that it, not that it's ugly, but just simply bigger or more complicated than we would be able to handle or even, yeah, understand.
Steve:
[1:26:48] I totally agree. I totally agree. I mean, people experience things due to what they expect. Sometimes I think it's down to expectation. You know, if you expect it to be something, this is why people, what we've discovered with the phenomena and we've used we've always tried even though that we are kind of scientists in the sense of speaking of what we're doing you know like barry of work and my work and many others especially when it comes to conducting tests and experiments is that the phenomena has a very clever method of getting you to perceive it to what it wants to be and that can vary drastically so is the variation not that the fact that there's 4 000 or over 5 000 different entities is that it is a source which is controlling human perception and the human perception is about various up to 5 000 different types you know i mean what's the mothman the lizard man the owl man you know the the wolfman the werewolf the dog man you know these people do experience these things. Absolutely. However,
Steve:
[1:27:58] What is the source? Is it a source that's doing this? And we go back to a point where we believe through the latest research now that it goes back millennia probably. And it really introduces itself on a microscopic scale, the phenomena. I'm not going to go into too much about this because I know that Barry's, he's got a book coming out. um so maybe
Tyler:
[1:28:28] He's not going to release it yeah but i know you guys are briefing the uh, the uitc team in may if i understood correctly on some of those okay yes yeah so maybe i'll have to get you both on after the fact or something like that but that'd be great absolutely.
Steve:
[1:28:46] Yeah sure i mean we're always i mean it's always working always trying to push and advance into the subjects, you know, and trying to come up with conclusive information, you know, but the more we do, the more we realize that the phenomena's capabilities are seemingly limited, literally just limitless.
Tyler:
[1:29:05] Yeah.
Steve:
[1:29:06] You know, we're finding more and more data that it just shows the capabilities. It's shocking, absolutely shocking. And it's all happening outside of our knowledge most of the time, even experiences, right?
Steve:
[1:29:20] Um, we just might see something, but we don't know what's going on with the human brain. Well, now we have things that can measure the human brain's activity at the time of experience. And it is surprising what's going on, which we don't realize, which would lead us to perception be manipulated. That deception process, um, changes, um, the, um, the, the rhythm of the brain is the process into, you know, into different, into theta from what we normally are. But we shouldn't be during waking state and experiencing something, but it does. And it does that because it allows that process to, in theatre, it's very, very manipulative in theatre, you know, especially regarding what you perceive. So the phenomena introduces that without us even knowing. And that can happen, I believe Barry mentioned, I think the fastest he's got that recorded at is 20 seconds into your experience, you know, so you have that discernment of 20 seconds to try and realize, you know, um, what you should do. Um, but without the knowledge of experiments and specialized equipment, we wouldn't know how people are being affected by phenomena. And it's quite fascinating when you start to look at the results, which we would have never known if it wasn't down to the equipment where we have now.
Tyler:
[1:30:38] Going, uh, circling back around to my, my metaphor about the, you know, escaping the, the three-dimensional prison. If If these entities themselves are, in fact, hyperdimensional, then there's no reason why, you know, just because you take the tubes out of a radio or you don't have the recorder on, that they can't just move to a time or the object to a time. When they could have done it and then just had it on there.
Steve:
[1:31:05] We really got to expand our understanding of the physics that's involved here because there's no point trying to fit it into the physics we know. It doesn't fit. So we really have to empty some of the physics out that we do know and start rewriting about what we've discovered and the metaphysicalities of this phenomena, which is incredible.
Tyler:
[1:31:28] I wanted to circle back around also to, you brought up the mothman and werewolves and dogmen and the skinwalkers, whatever, all of these different cryptid manifestations. And I really like the approach of looking at them through symbols. And it's like, okay, are they deceiving us? Are they distracting us? Or are they sending us a message and we're supposed to decrypt it? So you know we have like a lot of traditional ways of interpreting what these different things are like lycanthropy has its own connotations aside from what a dog man is you know symbolically and there's so many threads of that that i i wonder if they're speaking to us and they're trying to figure out which one of us are going to figure it out you know so the mothman itself it only manifests to certain people seemingly in concentrated areas at given times, and it's a winged being it's a humanoid winged being and it's dark and we don't have a lot of other information on it I know Lon Strickland, I'm a huge fan of his blog and all of the work that he's done but talking about winged cryptids and just the way that, They, most people who do experience them tend to speak about it as if it were, in many cases say, a spiritual experience.
Steve:
[1:32:53] And well, it is both because this is a problem when we, when we have people that can't think about the metaphysicality that the phenomena has. It is both. People say it's very physical, but it's not, you know, and because it isn't, you're going to be considering it's some type of spiritual experience. And because it is, you're going to think that it's tied into something, you know, a physical being of some sort. And what we do know is that the Mothman has not only been seen throughout Point Pleasant, but there are a number of other places around the world. Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. I heard about that.
Steve:
[1:33:27] But you know what? Around the time of the Point Pleasant incidents, there was a lot of UFO activity at the time as well, which was interesting. But one big giveaway tends to be the self-illuminated red eyes. And we find that in many, many different types of strange cryptids. Not that it's shining from the light being reflected in their eyes, it's actually self-illuminated red eyes like the Mothman had. And not just the Mothman, there have been many, many different cryptids that have these red glowing eyes, if I'm internally lying. So that tends to be some type of, some type of commonality that's found a lot. But when you look at these, they, they are physical when they want to be physical. They affect the area, the environment, they leave marks on the ground, scratches on gas, whatever. Yeah. And yet there's aspects of them being non-physical. You talk about the dogmen. I mean, a lot of incidents take place in Ohio and other places. In fact, there's incidents all around the world of dogmen and some very well-documented evidence.
Steve:
[1:34:36] But sometimes, you know, you'd expect them to be predatories. You know, these are predators, dogmen. But they don't act like predators. No predator on the planet acts like the dogman because what it's a 10 isn't to harm and kill like any other predator is when it's chasing its prey because sometimes they reach the prey. Sometimes people fall over.
Steve:
[1:34:59] These things are stood above them and then they just run off.
Steve:
[1:35:03] It's like the game is over. I don't know what else to do. They don't attack. Any predator on the planet would, but they don't. It's as if the aspect of this is to create third generation, like a third parasite, a parasitic thing. Now, the only time we've ever seen this and experienced this would be in the poltergeist infestation process, where these things are delivering phenomena purposeful for you to witness, but creates a heightened amount of vexation and stress, which the phenomena apparently feeds upon and utilizes for the next cycle of events. And it's a vicious circle, but it's about fear generation. And it does seem to be that the dogman incidents are also fear generation incidents. Now, you could say, well, okay, well, if that is the case, then is it some type of physical manifestation, like a poltergeist physical manifestation of some sort? You know, a poltergeist comes in various different forms. You know, the disturbances that we might have home, but the physicality of these things being chasing you through the woods or whatever.
Steve:
[1:36:08] Because it's about the fear of generation, it seems to be important. And I looked into the science side of this about, is it down to pheromones? And, well, according to certain tests, I mean, I talked with some people at high end and they said, oh, well, I don't think we have it anymore. And we don't think we even sense it anymore. That's not actually true. Some of the tests that carried out on skydivers, doing skydiving for the first time, they would put patches on them and they weren't off to the lab for testing. And just some, you know, some women do a run through the park on a Sunday. They had patches on, they went off to the lab. And people, under experimental conditions, identified the skydivers. They believed they could scent the smell of fear on them through the sweat glands, which is fascinating. So if that, you know, is it something to do with fear pharomones? I don't know.
Steve:
[1:37:02] But does that trickster element to it? And like, you know, when I said to Bai about this, he said, well, you know, who knows? Because it could just be doing it for giggles at the end of the day. Who knows? But it is interesting that it's seemingly a predator. It doesn't act like a predator. It's the only one on the planet that doesn't, to be honest with you. And then, you know, they follow tracks in the snow and stuff. And yet you end up with half a footprint and none more, as if it's just been
Steve:
[1:37:30] picked up from the ground. You know but yeah they can leave physical tracks and marks just like Bigfoot you know and hair scat and things like that well you can when they're physical but there are many reports that some of these Bigfoot are um you know sometimes they have been right next to people when they've been pursued they can see the bush moving but you can't see them they're like they're invisible they're cloaked or whatever you know so who knows if there is a metaphysical aspect to this which we do believe in the cryptic phenomena then it is exactly the same as the paranormal metaphysical aspects and the uap metaphysical aspects so maybe whatever all these things constitute are we dealing with one source presenting itself in multiple factions
Tyler:
[1:38:15] My my brother is a is a squatcher and he's very into it he goes to the conferences and everything and one of the one of the interesting things that he brought up to me was that you know he doesn't look for a a physical animal that no one can find right he has this idea and i don't necessarily disagree with him that the bigfoot is more of a, more of like a guardian angel type figure of the forest it's like they're they're all over the world wherever there's a you know a wild land that no one is supposed to you know destroy and then they inhabit that space and you can't catch one and you know sometimes you can and can't see them they behave in exactly the same way as you know people describe angelic or demonic perhaps beings but think things that are of a higher dimension than us um yes yeah i think that's a little closer to the truth than there's an australia pithecus you know population swarming forest that we can't find i've.
Steve:
[1:39:11] Met a lot of bigfoot guys um swatches over the years in different parts of the world um last time i met with um a team from um um pittsburgh i was in and uh these guys are very it's like it's like the old days of saying ufos are very nuts and bolts which we know they're not you know we know that that's not the case now but they are stuck there some people are saying it is a real living creature out there. But there's areas of their research they won't go into. And if you even also turn around and say, well, let's take the UK for an example. You know, travel 53 miles in any pretty big direction. You're going to hit the sea. You know, it's an island. But we have many reports of Bigfoot here. There's no place for them to live. You know, and what would he eat? A huge animal like that. It's got to, you know, like any tracker, any professional tracker will say, you don't follow the animal, you follow the food source.
Steve:
[1:40:09] You know, because we're going to have to consume a lot. And it has to be not just one of these things. There have to be quite a number of these things to survive. You know, they've got to be a, you know, a family of them, of something like that. They've got to be a society. But where are they? And it doesn't make any sense. We've had them in built-up areas where people have seen these things. In fact, the last one woman was reporting the sound it made was a chattering sound. You know, it was fascinating, and she was in tears about it. But she lives you know she lives not far from me and it's a it's a town it's the middle of a town it was a small little park and i say when i say small park you can see one end to the other and that's where it took place and you think to yourself how on earth can these happen now i get the fact that some animals can be so elusive if you take the panda for an example when they first discovered the panda you know it's black and white it lives in a forest of green it should stand out like a sore thumb it moves very slowly you know and it only really eats one type of food you know and yet even though they've discovered the first one it took them 60 years to find the second one 60 years and that's because it lives in an environment which is just so terrible for humans to try and get into
Steve:
[1:41:27] Um it's it's not like it's hyper lucive it's just it's environment and i get that there are environments around planet earth where these things may be living it's very possible but what are they is the question is it some extinct creature well when people come face to face with these things sometimes the evidence points to that it's a little bit more than just a physical type creature sometimes they demonstrate metaphysicality you know and that's what's so profound about this so again we're stuck in that same situation in regarding like the ufos and the paranormal you know it's so it seems to be that there's evidence of metaphysicality across all through these subjects oh
Tyler:
[1:42:10] Yeah i'll be in trouble if i don't correct myself so i should say gigantopithecus not australiopithecus otherwise i'll get drawn and quartered by.
Steve:
[1:42:17] Yeah, they're gigantic, but it's
Tyler:
[1:42:19] Absolutely true that there has to be some sort of metaphysical aspect to these things that you can't find them, or we just haven't found them yet. One of the two. I get reminded a lot about, we talk about the land-dwelling things, but things that are under the ocean, people thought that the giant squid didn't exist, and it turns out it did.
Steve:
[1:42:40] Oh yes i mean yeah i get that we're always going to find you know things which we thought may have been extinct the sealer camp fish was one of them wasn't it i thought it was extinct and yet they found it right yeah i can understand that but when we're dealing with things which are just want to like like dog men and things like that which seemingly just want to generate fear i mean it was an interesting case where you know two teenagers were walking through the forest they were staying with the father for the summer father works he has a log cabin there nice home and they're very aware of this location. They've walked it many, many times through the lives as fathers lived there for a long time. And yet one night, suddenly taken over by fear. Now, this is what's interesting, fear induction. Fear induction often takes place prior to the incident. Fear induction is often utilizing infrasonic sound. We don't hear it.
Steve:
[1:43:31] But the surroundings do. And this is where you'll find that everything goes quiet. The birds go quiet. The insects go quiet. Take that typical scenario of the Close Encounters of the Third Kind, an incredible film Steven Spielberg did. Or the crickets suddenly go quiet, and then, boom, there's a UFO incident. This happens time and time again because, you know, these animals, these insects, they hear infrasonic sound and think it's predators, so they fall completely quiet. You end up with these dead zones. suddenly fear takes over because infasonic sound around about letter 18 hertz to 19.5 hertz the fear frequency generates fear in the human body as a as an emotion just sound generates fear and they're overcome with fear and then they realize something that they're being pursued something's watching them from the tree line and it's it's all about the pursue then it's about scaring them enough so they start to panic start to run and then this thing runs faster it's a pursuit, pursuit, pursuit, fear, fear, fear. They get to the cabin. They shut the door. They lock it. You know, the screaming blue murder.
Steve:
[1:44:34] And this thing comes up, and it could have gone right through the door. It's about nine foot tall, this thing, and four foot wide on its shoulders. And yet it didn't. It could have gone right through the glass window, which they're looking out the window, screaming at this thing. Could have gone right through if it wanted to, but no. What's it do? It grabs over the handle, the door handle, and it's shaking it backwards and forwards and growling, ah, sort of thing. It's actually the same thing you do as if you were teasing a child and wanted to scare a child.
Tyler:
[1:45:02] Right.
Steve:
[1:45:02] The father, with all the screaming from these two teenagers, the father wakes up, no-nonsense guy, walks downstairs, says, what's all this blooming noise? They're screaming to him, Dad, Dad, don't open the door, don't open the door. No-nonsense guy. He's not having anything like that. He walks straight over to the door, unlocks it, opens it, and comes face-to-face with this thing. At that moment in time there's a pause he's staring at this thing trying to work out what the hell am I looking at this thing's just staring back at him no movement for at least two or three seconds and that's a long time when you're faced with these things and then all it does is it runs off it just scarpers and runs back to the forest line uh you know it's like the game's up it was all about the third generation you know it fascinates me
Steve:
[1:45:46] about these cases that happen like this. And it seems that the thrill and what it wants to conclude is the obtaining of fear as opposed from anything else. And that leads me to believe that any other time I would see this is in the Apologize Disturbances. And I've investigated quite a number of them over the years, and it is certainly about fear generation. Because once you teach the individuals living in that environment,
Steve:
[1:46:14] Look you you're assisting the phenomena through your process of vexation wants to scare you and this is this is how it works this they realize and if they can lower the vexation cycles then the the incidents start to become less to the point where they're really i start to identify the fact that they're actually hand in hand in association with this phenomena and which reinforces the fact that they can actually rid it and in some cases it has ridden it's called starving the phenomena process it's very difficult because you're dealing with people and some people get so scared it's next to impossible sometimes to lower their vexation cycle
Tyler:
[1:46:55] Yeah so on the note of things inspiring a fear response in people and you know there's this this constant attempt to play with the senses in order to get someone to do a certain thing um going back to my my video game simulation theory idea here but when we're creating a game we do the same thing you know the intention is to get a specific response out of the player whether that is to go in a certain direction or react in a certain way especially especially with horror games because fear is like the easiest thing to manipulate but it often is surprising how little it takes to control the player you know you don't even have to i'll give a great example there's this game it was very very popular called uh oh the dark descent amnesia the dark descent and it gives you a uh a sanity meter and it tells you in the beginning of the game that you need to always have a light with you like a candle or a lantern or something like that and as you explore the depths of this giant mansion that you're in you go deeper and deeper.
Tyler:
[1:48:04] Um your sanity meter goes lower if you don't have light with you and the truth is you can't actually play the game with no light and the sanity meter doesn't really make that much of a difference but the belief the belief that that matters keeps you constantly in a in a struggle to find more candles more wax more oil for your lantern and most players never figure that out they just do what they're told because they're scared um and i think that is so interesting and And if I were an amber gambler, that's probably how I would do it. I would do it, just as you said, make my appearance into something that would get the, whether it be positive or negative, the desired response out of my target.
Steve:
[1:48:50] Yes, I've always, you're absolutely right, because light deprivation causes a lot of problems on the psychological process. Most people when they're going on investigations and paranormal, what's the first thing they do? Switch all the lights off, go infrared. In fact, infrared doesn't help that situation.
Steve:
[1:49:07] Especially if you're somebody who's having traumatic experiences in their residential home, that's not a good point. But, you know, the process of doing that, you don't need to investigate in a dark. It's going to cause a mountain of issues, like deprivation, you know, in regarding how we perceive. And lots of false negatives do come in. In fact, we've done social studies and experiments with a group of people, taken them into certain buildings, and filled them with prior knowledge and expectation, and gave them report forms, and over a period of five hours, you should see what the reports come back with, oh, I felt this, I saw this. In fact, sometimes two people might come forward and say, we both saw this. In fact, what they didn't realize was it was a social experiment, and nobody was in a haunted environment. It was perfectly fine, you know, nothing going on there. But the psychological aspects of it shows that, you know, people can think that these things are, you know, paranormal locations. And not only that, that you can induce those beliefs into a location which can start to have activity. Very similar to the Philip experiment which took place in Canada and where the manufacture of paranormal phenomena was generated through the power of belief.
Tyler:
[1:50:30] Wow.
Steve:
[1:50:33] We do affect the environment we live in through the power of belief. It's a very strong thing, the power of belief. You know, you can alter perceptions as well. And if you believe in something strong enough, you know, but this has been going on for a long time. It was in the witchcraft area. We refer to his tulpas and stuff like that. But, you know, it's the same process, really, bringing something into realism, into our reality. The conjuring process, I would say.
Tyler:
[1:50:59] There was a really, really good film made a couple of years ago it was called nefarious and oh yes.
Steve:
[1:51:07] So yes it was a book though
Tyler:
[1:51:08] Yeah were the there's a psychologist who's basically been asked to ascertain whether or not a man who's on death row is insane or not and the man himself purports to be uh possessed by a demon and the he has that movie has some of the best explanatory monologue and dialogue i think i've ever seen on this object it's.
Steve:
[1:51:30] Also incredible research for that movie oh yeah
Tyler:
[1:51:33] And the the demon sort of approaches him from the point of view he's like well yeah you're an atheist what do you have to lose you don't believe in any of this stuff so what does it matter and he's like fine come into me and that's the moment that's the uh check off's gun of the film where he's like yes it is you screwed up there but so by by assuming i don't believe in something and then inviting it in, you are therefore believing you are giving the first layer of belief and also that's that's.
Steve:
[1:52:03] It belief yeah you absolutely right
Tyler:
[1:52:05] And and the demon even goes so far as to tell him point blank to his face he's like well i don't need you to agree i just need to get a series of yeses from you small incremental steps until i've got you under my thought the guy's just like he's not having, and yeah i won't spoil the end of the movie but it's so fantastic it's.
Steve:
[1:52:22] An amazing film and the more times you watch it, the more times you realize the plan and the accuracy of what was going on. It is fascinating. Though I haven't ever been involved in sort of very dramatic things like that. I have been involved when some priests were called out to a house and they did conduct a certain type of procedure with an individual,
Steve:
[1:52:52] Which I wasn't involved in. In fact, there was a very small priest and I wanted to when we were going up the stairs he turned around and put his hand he put his hand out and he put his hand on my chest and he said are you coming into the uh i said well i was going to and he said to me he said well if you do the devil will always know your name you are aware of that i went no and uh and i'm not daft i didn't go in i did not go in despite my wanting to i thought better of it you know and uh because there's no point being you know macho about this i've experienced things i'm glad i've not been involved in you know even when i had to say look this is out of my comfort zone and uh and walk away um i still experience things you know even in the car i was sat in you know there was the you know the pens were moving around in the in the on the in the middle section where we put pens in the part of the car and they were moving around on their own you know so it's you know it's not for me there are very very extreme rarities where you come face to face with some of these things and you think it's a little bit different aspect to the normal process of investigation if you want to call it a cult supernatural whatever
Steve:
[1:54:16] I think it's just it's a management process and i didn't want to get involved in that especially when you've got family and friends if you've got something to care about i do know that you know they can affect your life i know about attachments but i is aware of that as well um and you have to draw a line somewhere you know when people turn around and say i've done this and i do that and i think to myself we got family and you got friends you know you where's your limitation and you should have no matter how much anybody's been involved in this subject how many years you know you never rule out common sense and uh when your body tells you to walk away you walk away it's as simple as that curiosity
Tyler:
[1:54:58] Often kills the cat and the paranormal.
Steve:
[1:55:00] Investigation it does really i mean even though i you know i want to learn i want to know more i probably won't get all the answers of course but do i want to put myself in that position i'd rather not i didn't feel comfortable doing so. So I didn't, you know, and, uh, and I'm glad I didn't, you know, but each and every person has their own limitations, I suppose.
Tyler:
[1:55:24] From a, uh, parapsychology standpoint, why do exorcisms work? Like what's going on with that?
Steve:
[1:55:31] Well, it's no different than the blessings really. And, you know, I mean, we have, you get a bit mixed up the terminology between blessings and exorcisms. You exercise because somebody say, oh, we're exercising a house. We don't exercise a house. You bless the house. Um, and you exercise individuals, try and read, you know, um, well, the Vatican will say bad space or the devil or whatever. It's just references as far as i'm concerned but um they do get mixed up now blessings of properties um are about 12 successful you don't hear about that you think the hollywood films will have you believe that it's always works one way another or you watch these tv shows thank you for coming the house is a lot better now dadada they don't go back three months six months 12 months later I think they find out. But, you know, sometimes these lay low, they're clever. They evolve. They're not daft. You know, they can lie low. They can make you think that they've gone. They can vacate for periods of time, you know. But, like anything, if there's an attraction to the household, they can be there. It's like a moth to a light.
Steve:
[1:56:38] But exorcisms, if you look through just a handful of the ones which are, They're very rare, documented ones, but there are problems within all documented ones. You know, Hollywood's got all of them, twisted the story. This person said this, this person said that. If you try and get to the raw data... You know, there probably are psychological things that can account for the actions, you know. What we tend to look for would be forget the person, what's going on in the environment, because we've been expecting quite a realm of paranormal disturbances happening as well in that environment,
Steve:
[1:57:21] Not just focusing on an individual. But yeah you know i certainly believe that they can be attachments and they can be negative and what they do is they'll bring a whole lot of negativity into the life of those individuals now if we take for instance high strangeness cases and robert bigelow now we know that robert bigelow was part of nids and was spent some time at the sherman ranch i don't call it skinwalker branch that's a tv name yeah it really is it's a terrible show um and the sherman ranch back then was having quite apparently quite profound experiences there but there were a multitude when you say high strangeness which that word was developed because it's what we refer to as the cocktail it's a cocktail of poltergeist cocktail of cryptid cocktail uap all wrapped up in one big, you know, one big dish. And they did do, and were involved with John Alexander and a number of other people, some names I can't mention,
Steve:
[1:58:29] Which were involved in some of the esoteric experiments that they were involved in.
Steve:
[1:58:37] And they did this a little bit too often now the problem with that is is that two members of the nids team and bigelow were badly affected bigelow probably reflected quite the worst with the phenomena hitching or hitchhiking nothing to do with phantom hitchhikers of course but hitchhiking home to his to his house where he had those bad dreams terrible disturbances and the worst negative worst luck you could ever be faced with and i mean talk total terrible things like losing family members you know um even the pets everything going wrong everything going bad you know it's just that string of negativity there is a sting in the tail of phenomena if you do not know how to deal with it and like barry knows and myself know that you know sometimes we have to have certain protocols of respite because during experiments what we found was that some experimenters were having experiences at home and it's like taking your work home with you and you don't want to do that you don't want to do that because it affects your life it affects your lifestyle and your household and family members the whole thing what you need to do is make sure if you're going to dip your toe in that water that you don't do it so often but at first when you get involved in experiments like we've been involved in
Steve:
[2:00:06] It's exciting and you want to go back the following day and do the same thing now what's interesting is that when you go through the process of advanced seance through the punch through to the poltergeist hysterics and punch through to nhi it's a bit different when you get to NHI level because it's like the phone is off the hook ready. You don't have to go through that long process of getting the circle right. Once you reach NHI, it's like communication's open. You can go away and come back the next day and you can get there quick, quite fast. There are a number of ways of communicating with NHI. I wouldn't say the esoteric ritualistic practice is the best. It's intrusive it's fast it good does get results but it's not the best thing to do comes with warnings um and this is the same thing what jack parsons was doing um and there's better ways the better ways is that seance through the saints process but what this phenomena does kind of describe this is like
Steve:
[2:01:14] For scientists, you want to introduce scientists, you always want to kind of try and do that. But if that person does not believe or has not had any experiences,
Steve:
[2:01:24] They become the weak link in the chain. And it's not what we want. We want the opposite, actually. We want scientists involved as much as we possibly can. But it's like seeing a religious apparition. You've got to believe in the religion to experience the phenomena. Doesn't work otherwise so and it's a bit like that with a uap and nhai they like people which are believers they like people who are experiences so what you do is your circle has to consist of those people the phenomena really likes to get the best rewards the best conclusions best evidence but um once you do that nhai the thing is is that you've got to take respite so respite protocols has to be wrote in because you can't go at it every day you're going to start bringing things down thing is going to start attaching itself in some way the phenomena like nhi strings things out you might ask questions and you'll they'll say things in a sense where i want you to come back and do it even more and more and more and more and as you're doing that you're not aware that the phenomena is actually getting under your skin a little then you start to take
Steve:
[2:02:33] it back with you And that's not a good thing to do. So respite protocols are important that you do, you know, the two in five or, you know, three in seven or whatever. You know, you don't do that every day because it can be problematic.
Tyler:
[2:02:47] Yeah. I've known a lot of my colleagues who went off to war and then the first taste of blood or whatever, the whole experience. And no matter how traumatic it is, they want to go back. They want to be involved. I had one friend who, God bless him, when they closed down Bagram Air Base, he cried because he'd spent six months of every year of his life for quite a long time there. He's like it's like shut down the home i can't fall asleep at night without the sound of mortars going off in the background and it's the same thing with paranormal investigation you get addicted to the thrill of it and it can you.
Steve:
[2:03:22] Do that's the trap that's the problem you know because it is he's like that that finger saying come on come closer and come closer and what you don't realize is that you know certain attachments can happen and this is what happened to bigelow you Bigelow's confessed this. He actually did a series of interviews with a researcher and news host for Mystery Wire. And he publicly put that out over the internet with a series of interviews. And he talked openly about the hell he went through because he believed that it was due down to the experiments they were conducting at the Sherman Ranch. And it wasn't just him. It was a couple of other people. So he's out there on the internet for people to watch it. It was George Knapp interviewing Robert Bigelow from, I think it came out February about three years ago, that detailed interview that he started doing. And it's not just him. Many other people have had attachments through that process of excitement. Um and it's it's very misleading sometimes and you wouldn't know it's happening because you get excited like i say and you want to keep doing it more and more but you do have to maintain some type of control
Tyler:
[2:04:44] What all of this sherman ranch i'll use your term uh stuff is so frustrating especially the television series because at a certain point first of all the television show opens up it's like they're presenting it like it's going to be very very scientific and then and they do nothing scientific for the rest of the day.
Steve:
[2:05:07] It's frustrating, isn't it? It is.
Tyler:
[2:05:09] I get it. I get the entertainment aspect of it and all, but don't tell me something and then not do the thing you told me. But –, yeah i think that there's a part of it where you just get addicted to the attention that you get from it it's like.
Steve:
[2:05:21] Yeah it's a thrill ride they want to generate a thrill ride for each episode and i get it i've seen so many tv shows like i've worked on so many tv shows but a lot of the shows that i'm involved in are things like for national geographic discovery channel you know all unsolved mysteries i mean they don't take no rubbish you know i mean they're very very thorough about all the work they do um and uh you know i try and stay away from the old ghostbuster things i don't get involved in ghostbusting in other words i have done 17 years of corporate investigations
Steve:
[2:05:58] For private companies and businesses which had problematics in paranormal phenomena and we wrote protocols for city councils and private landlords how to deal with issues like that to maintain control over the situation because it's a business at the end of the day they want to rent homes at the end of the day um and i've worked with police um a number of times and even even criminal criminal agencies criminal departments you know investigation teams i've done a number of different things over the years but the same process is the same process if things go on in the corporate sector that people don't get to know and that's because it's been controlled very good, very quickly, doesn't get out to the press, which is really what they don't want to happen. But then you've got always this press snapping at your heels for a good old juicy story. You know, and so the ends are the ones that you tend to hear. I don't get involved in those sort of things. I'm more interested in advancing the subject, you know, and our research rather than it being static and conducting new types of experiments and trying to gain an understanding of what we're actually dealing with here. I suppose from just sort of going out there for the thrill. There are thrill riders and TV shows are built on that. A lot of them, just like the, you know, the TV series that we were talking about. I've seen it. I watched about for maybe three, four, five episodes.
Steve:
[2:07:24] And, uh, you know, I know one of these people, you know, and, um, like I say, it's, uh, it's a shame, but then, you know, it's not built, it's not created for people like me. It's created for the audience that want to come home, sit in a chair and watch something which is quite thrilling for an hour with their imaginations going. And that's okay but it's no endeavor to do anything for science and advancing the subject is just a pointless thing to do to be honest with you
Tyler:
[2:07:53] Yeah i mean i can be naive myself and i have been but i think everyone's susceptible to that but you know when i look at my career in podcasting, i'm gonna have to push back on things that just simply don't make sense like i would rather be art bell than jimmy church no offense to jimmy church yes.
Steve:
[2:08:09] I don't know
Tyler:
[2:08:10] It's just a style but you know, he sort of just takes everything at face value. He lets people say what they want and kind of agrees with them the whole way. And that's fine. There's, but art would, you know, rip people apart right there on the radio show. You called it on the wrong line.
Steve:
[2:08:25] You should do because when you're being delivered information, which is incredible information, you should question it. You should do. I do. And he saw it's only normal. You know, it doesn't matter if people want to take offense at that, that because you don't openly agree or openly believe them just on a whim.
Tyler:
[2:08:43] Right.
Steve:
[2:08:43] And that's the problem you know because for me i can't do that i i have to have evidence you know though i've i get to lecture all of all over the world and um you know and i go to these conventions i see a lot of people which are talking about certain things and there's no a shred of evidence presented it's a fanciful story it's interesting yes but for me i've become I'm a bit long in the tooth now for that. I kind of say, well, okay, where's the evidence? And I'd rather spend my time, you know, dealing with good research and good evidence, you know, and my circle of people that I work with and talk with, um are people which will specify that type of work you know and and provide the evidence and things like that and that's that's worthy to me because there's something to grab hold of rather than just a fanciful story but don't get me wrong just because somebody can't provide evidence doesn't necessarily mean didn't happen it's just for me i'd rather spend time you know where there's evidential stuff there yeah
Tyler:
[2:09:51] Jacques valet talked a lot about that where you know there are all these different cases that he's like i could work on anything i want you know i could be here and there i can work with the government all this sort of thing but it's just like what when i think about how how do i want to spend my time it's just so much better to be on the ground talking to, eyewitnesses and going to the press and seeing what the actual evidence is than it is to just deal with theoretics all day long.
Steve:
[2:10:13] Well exactly i mean i've worked with jack valet a few times and he's an exceptional mind he really is and he's well ahead of his time he's a pioneer actually regarding what we're talking about now compared to years ago what he came up with he was the first pioneer of these ideas and theories and he was I think he's absolutely spot on well ahead of his time but I worked with him regarding the documentary Witnessed which I was an official spokesman for
Steve:
[2:10:46] Also the promotion and spokesman for Trinity, the book that he did with Paola Harris. So yeah, it's fascinating. There are individuals I put on my top shelf and some of them are involved at the high-level think tanks and some of which I've been involved in the same place I've been where I go to have my think tank. So it's minds like that that can think outside the box, which achieve, you know, because that's the first thing you've got to understand is that Don't limit yourself in your process of reality and thinking. It's outside the box sometimes. And that's when you start to gain a better understanding sometimes because you've not got the rigidity. Your back's not up against the wall because you're daring to push forward. You've got to push forward. And now we have scientists, we have academics coming forward and assisting in regarding their speciality. And it's a good time now because we have more scientists coming forward and assisting than ever before, to be honest with you. But at the same time, it's delicate. I mean, just for an example, the process of UAP when ATIP came out and the discussions, the TTSA as well, to the Stars Academy,
Steve:
[2:12:09] Listing the three methods of travel and they said these objects can travel in space, can travel underwater, travel in the sky, it's transmedium. The bottom line is, though, when I'm at the think tanks and discussing these things with people is that I make a point of saying there's one left out. It's quadmedium, actually, because these objects can travel through solid matter. And boy, were they aware of that. But they wouldn't put it out there. And I said well why was it retracted why is it not quad medium why are you putting trans medium out and he said to me that they couldn't do that because they want to try and have scientists come forward and assist and that's a great thing but to open up that door of physics and drop that on the lap might scare some away and they didn't want to do that so they're going to leave that to a later date they'll get into the quad medium capabilities of UAP at some stage probably next year. But at this time, you know, we're just trying to deal with trans medium, let alone the quad medium capabilities.
Tyler:
[2:13:19] Yeah, there's also the argument for incremental steps to try to understand something like, can we even get to this before we move on to that? And I think that the Kabbalists set it down in terms of just like the truth is sort of at the intersection between intuition and reason. You can't have just one or the other. If you try to reason your way out of everything without thinking with your heart, you won't get anywhere. And if you try to only think intuitively and never reason with anything, then you can end up down all kinds of fun little rabbit holes that many of my friends and even myself at times have gone down.
Steve:
[2:13:56] Yes, absolutely. Totally agree.
Tyler:
[2:13:58] Think of ingo swan and uh you know his work with we were talking about jock valley already but just the the scientific approach to remote viewing was so fascinating and so real you can't even really disprove that it's a phenomenon at this point it's just more like explaining what is it how do they do that but it's all about balancing your intuition with your it's like.
Steve:
[2:14:19] What's it's like what i was saying it's that transition is to expanded consciousness is to get out the box we're living and that could be through remote viewing your expanded consciousness gets out of the reality the realm of that reality that was stuck in to the outside source and once you're outside there then you realize what true capabilities are capable but we've got to be able to do that and there are a number of different methods you know in many years ago a lot of people were doing psychedelics to do that i would never suggest anybody do psychedelics of course because there are downsides it could be dangerous
Steve:
[2:14:52] But it was introduced as a process of ritualistic um communication with these entities these nhai um the better process is i mean of course we we've had it through witchcraft um and the cult practices which realistic and esoteric um and also through small modern times um we had it through experiments through science like skull experiment and many others where small ufos size of dinner plates were seen proper unidentified objects firing lights down onto the table sometimes banging on the table as they move along bum bum bum and then going through the table and coming up through the table and then bouncing on the table again bum bum bum demonstrating metaphysicality of course which you'd like to do um and then obviously we got into the c5 stuff now that's the conjuring of the phenomena it is basically that's all it is i mean having five people around a seance table mediums and trying to conjure phenomena to appear is no different than having five meditators sat on a beach and trying to see if a ufo will appear in this guy it's the same process conjuring the phenomena and of course a little bit more control state with better was heist human interaction and contact experiences and uh and that was a bit more control rather than You're
Steve:
[2:16:19] Just dealing with random people going to the circle.
Steve:
[2:16:22] You're dealing with people who are experiences and stuff and that you do get a better response from the phenomena.
Steve:
[2:16:29] And then I know the modern thing that they're all talking about, which actually has been going on for quite some time, is the PCs, is the psionic circles. And again, it's a more precise way of dealing with it, but kept in secrecy, of course, with those operations. But it's all the same thing, basically. It's just achieving better results through different practices of it. But it's been going on for a long time to get to that other outside area, that expanded consciousness. And you're finding that it's not about the physical nuts and bolts, it's about what you can achieve with consciousness. And this is how the phenomena seemingly like when to interact with individuals in that manner.
Tyler:
[2:17:12] Somewhere along the line uh the the order of operations got flipped around whereas now i think a lot of people assume that consciousness is is like the several steps along the road of perception like you know you're an animal with base you know reptilian brain thoughts and then you progress up and up and up and then eventually you get to consciousness whereas i would posit that consciousness is at the bottom of that pyramid and everything was an idea before it was a reality the desk that i'm looking at right now on this computer they were all ideas before they became physical objects and i don't think that's such a stretch but obviously we reprogram people to think this way again it's.
Steve:
[2:17:55] Very very difficult i mean this is what the quote when yeah i talked to con sorry about that it's it's it's um about contact with these phenomenies it's it's problematic as you can say but consciousness seems to be the key thing to contact. And many people have done this in different practices. Now, sometimes it's the other way around. Phenomenon comes knocking on your door at an early age. And this is what I refer to because I know that we've got six, maybe six or seven times now listed to our experiments that NHI can tell you exactly. The longest time we've got is 19 months logged down into the future, where you are, what you're doing, precision. Now that is a problem because we have to start looking into, well, where's free will coming to this? You know, if I walk out my house one day and take a left and to the right, we still seem to reach
Steve:
[2:18:53] That incident somehow, unless they knew we were going to take a left instead of a right, who knows? It's very problematic. But one thing is for sure, NHI know about future events. So if you're looking for that, NHI initiates with somebody at an early age, what I refer to as initiation process, how do we know that they could see 25 years into the future and know that through this experience that you're having now, you're going to be talking to 5,000 people in 25 years time and putting our word out, doing the job for them. You know, it's very fascinating about how people have been brought into this subject. Now, most of them I know in this subject at the high end probably would never turn around and say, well, you know, I got into it because I'm an experiencer.
Steve:
[2:19:44] I'd assume most of them are. I know a few of them are, I've never said, you know because they don't want to be considered that their conclusions are biased through their belief system so but for me i'm quite open to say now i never always used to be of course but now i'm quite happy to turn around and say yeah you know of course i've had experiences you know barry's had experiences we've had experiences together you know and uh sometimes you know when we're out together it's like options turn up things start to happen i used to joke with it's like joking with him saying it's two two for the price of one here you know but it's just the way they are and i don't know why but uh the phenomena interacts with certain people and when we conduct the research we've been very successful in places barry's done exceptional work which i've been privy to and um and we've experienced phenomena firsthand now there are people who'll never will turn around and say, I've never seen a thing, you know, and you have to question why, why is that? And I do believe there are reasons why people don't experience phenomena.
Tyler:
[2:20:53] You know, the, the CE5 thing, it, every description of it sounds plausible in that many other people in different scenarios have reported seeing exactly the same thing experiencing the exactly same thing uh many of berries in your stories coag uh corroborate with stuff that dr greer has talked about or even shown in his documentaries and everything but i think it's the way that it's presented that turns people off um it.
Steve:
[2:21:19] Is the way it's presented yeah it is
Tyler:
[2:21:21] It comes across like it's this almost not to say it isn't spiritual but like a religious practice like you just if you just believe in this thing then it will you know come to you and it's all good that's the other scary part of it.
Steve:
[2:21:35] Well that's the biggest problem at all but you know i mean we don't get me wrong i mean myself and barry have lectured in the uh the bible bible belt
Tyler:
[2:21:42] Areas i grew up there the u.s.
Steve:
[2:21:44] Yeah and uh you know i mean we've we've turned we've deduced people to tears and not been invited back but we it wasn't because we're all negative we're just saying for what it is you know that we have to express caution when we're thrown to the wind you know when dealing with this phenomena we don't know what we're going to experience you know there are people who've had terrible experiences there are some people which have good experiences enlightening experiences that's okay you know because the phenomena is an agenda it has its own agenda to do what it wants some of them are going to do things that you might perceive to be oh that well that was an okay experience you know and enlightening and educational others not so much you know i mean if certain factions have got certain agendas to do they're going to go about the business but you don't know it's a toss of a coin if you're especially if you're intrusive to their areas of our research um that we've done together myself and barry um barry's been able to pinpoint areas of you know high strangeness where phenomenon would manifest. And like anybody in the science, you've got to do it the other way around. You've got to prove your hypothesis. So you end up having to go and travel to these places, up on the top of mountains and desert hillsides and whatever.
Steve:
[2:23:02] And when you experience it firsthand, then you realize that the data within your research is accountable, you know, because it's proven from both sides. The hypothesis has been proven. It's no longer a hypothesis. It becomes conclusive evidence. And we've done this time and time again. And you can experience it from the first time, but it can be intrusive. Sometimes they don't like you there. Sometimes it's like, well, what are you doing here? because these a lot of places are where there is no footfall of humankind in places like this. You know, they're left about going about their business and then suddenly we've turned up and are doing our stuff and then all of a sudden, you know, they kind of appear and interact in certain numerous ways.
Steve:
[2:23:47] Sometimes okay, sometimes not good. Sometimes we've hot-skirted it out of there, to be honest with you. We've had to because uh you know it's we know that it's not least leading to somewhere where we don't want to go so sometimes we've had to just uh scoot scoot off sometimes you know we've overstayed our welcome are
Tyler:
[2:24:10] You uh you familiar with dr j allen hynek that yeah uh one of one of our patreon supporters wrote in and asked you know what did you think of his work and especially the ufo experience and the project.
Steve:
[2:24:22] Well heiner heiner was a great guy unfortunately he worked for the u.s government and he was involved in sometimes i'll be honest dampening things down because he's pressured from the government um however the more he did this the more rebellious he became he didn't like this he didn't like working under the slum of the government and he knew a lot more they could ever say and this is why when he left he you know he opened up the Center for UFO Studies, because he wanted to make sure that he gets the good information out. Now, I was aware of that early on, and in a special 14, number 14 project report meeting he had for the Project Blue Book. He stipulated in that private meeting that his evidence, he said his evidence does not support that these things are extraterrestrial in origin, which is fascinating what people don't get to hear very often. Heineck's saying he didn't think that they were extraterrestrial, these real things. In fact, he got shunned considerably for that and ended up going working with Jacques Vallée for a number of years, who also had been shunned for his opinions, surprisingly.
Steve:
[2:25:37] And they worked together consistently for quite some time. So I have, you know, he's a founder of the investigation process. Of course, Project Blue Book was damning in regarding real investigation. I've got everything of Project Blue Book. It's huge files I've got. And I looked through the reports, and the report forms look like a 12-year-old sometimes I've just wrote them out. Terrible, terrible questions not even asked, which are on the report form. And I'm aware that there was a lot of showmanship regarding Project Blue Book,
Steve:
[2:26:12] Even prior to Hynek being initially involved. And they'd reach out to the press and say, oh, we're going off to see Mrs. Brown today. And the press would be there when they turn up at Mrs. Brown to make them look good as they get out on their sharp, nice suits and the satchels and when you're looking to do a really good job when, in fact, it was just for public. The public demanded that we look into the UFO phenomena, and they just did it for the public. I mean, Project Blue Book was run from a very small room, one table, a desk, and some things on the wall, and one filing cabinet. That was it for a whole big operation like that.
Steve:
[2:26:50] And 12, was it 12,612 cases or something like that with 701 unknowns? I believe there's more than that. But, you know, and the true statistics, we'll never find out. But with Mrs. Brown, we would turn around and say, the compartmentalization was happening then. You know, Mrs. Brown said, oh, we were followed home by this UFO in the sky. We were panicking. We got to the farmhouse, you know, and then it kind of disappeared some time later. But then it was strange because the following week, we had all this strange paranormal stuff going on in the house or poltergeist things. Of course, they'd turn around and say, oh, hang on, Mrs. Brown, just stick to the facts on the UFO, please. No ghosty stuff. Of compartmentalization was happening back then. You know, so this is the problem why we ended up going down this path. You know, controlling the narrative in a sense of speaking. But I'm very fond of his work.
Steve:
[2:27:41] I'm aware of his son. I've met his son. And, uh, he's a pioneer as far as I'm concerned in regarding the latter work that he did when he, then he came away from Project Blue Book and was involved in the Center for UFO Studies and the work that he did in that was certainly beneficial.
Tyler:
[2:27:58] On the writing of the accounts in those files, I will comment that if you're expecting a MP or security forces from the Army or the Air Force to be solid journalistic writing, look elsewhere. But I will say on behalf of my old job with the U.S. Air Force, we are exceptionally good at spreading propaganda. Oh, yes. America, we learned from our father nation, so thank you for that, how to do lots of good manipulation and to press ideas for good or for bad. Who's to say?
Steve:
[2:28:42] Everything is it all is right from the day one even before the pentagon got involved in the uap at that level it was initiated there they were using certain people to be able to influence the narrative change leslie keen was one of those individuals went out in the press across right across america before it became international press she was over here in the uk conducted some research and regarding parapsychological experiments, some of which I can't go into, but she witnessed firsthand and, uh, she went back and, uh, she had a report in newspaper, all the newspapers picked you up. UFOs constitute paranormal. In other words, they're both one of the same thing in their, in their words. And that was the initiation of change. And then you've got all the people you utilize to bring them changing their narrative. Uh, I believe that, um elizondo is one of them louis um and a few others and uh and before you know it they are at pentagon level and they're forcing the narrative change because they have to and they have to use certain people to do so people that have a good outreach to the public through the press or through television or even through music if you want to talk about tom de long even through music oh
Tyler:
[2:29:58] Yeah i love liquid 82 i think that they're a fantastic rock and roll band I think Tom.
Steve:
[2:30:03] They're a great, they're a great band, but they, you know, he, he, they knew that he could, whatever he puts out that millions of people could see it. So he was utilized for that. The TTSA, I mean, fell flat straight away for me because, you know, you've got on stage, Hal Puthoff and Jim Simerville and, you know, quite a number of people included Elizondo. Um, and, When they first did an international announcement from the TTSA, they put a picture up on screen. It was the biggest screen I'd ever seen, actually. The audience was filled with scientists and academics. And the image, they were talking about TikTok, and they put an image up on screen. I immediately realized that image is my image. An investigation carried out in 2007 in Eccles in Manchester in the UK.
Steve:
[2:30:59] So they lied. and i reported it uh contacted them tried an explanation from them they totally ignored me so i went to the press american press picked it up and pressed them to forcibly make an announcement which they turned around eventually and said we do apologize and we had some form of mix-up um it was an oversight or whatever and i thought to myself no no no you can't get away with this one not even my team if anybody was presenting something of a photograph they'd be asking questions where's this come from how did you get it when was it all this not to be pretended to be something else and used in advantage for them uh so that put the ttsa immediately into a dark area with me and i expressed my uh my opinion about this i was very upset about this and that no you Not that they used it. I don't mind people who want to use it. The thing is, they picked it because it was only on one place on the internet, I put it, and that was on the Jeff Rents sightings show, which was a radio show in 2005.
Steve:
[2:32:11] And I sent the photographs to him, and it was on the website. So it was very obscure, and that's probably why they picked it. But, you know, it's deception at the highest level here. It's being used. And um and quite clearly nobody at that level should ever make a mistake like that and yet it was done on purpose and without any explanation so i knew back then that uh you know you've got to be really careful about who's at the steering wheel of the public and the media and how truthful they're actually being because at the end of the day you know you can never really trust anyone to be honest with you about regarding the absolute truth about this phenomena. Really, that seems to be the case.
Tyler:
[2:32:54] I don't think that Tom DeLonge is a liar. I think he's a useful pawn.
Steve:
[2:32:59] Tom DeLonge is not a liar. In fact, I'll tell you the situation with Tom DeLonge. Tom DeLonge got himself into circles and he knows stuff. Maybe he shouldn't have known it because he can't keep his mouth shut. He lets people know and he says things. Sometimes embarrassing the hierarchy that worked with him because he doesn't keep secrets very well
Steve:
[2:33:21] Um even we found even that the work myself and barry's done in project doorway seeped into he's aware of our work tom um seeped into his movie that he did which came out on netflix i believe um uh he's our work you know but look we don't care you know we don't mind this is the whole point is we want our work out there we need to change the process of how we think about the phenomena and advance the subject so we don't mind it being out there we don't have no issues people wanting to put it out you know but uh i believe he was he's kind of been used as a bit of a stooge unfortunately but at the end of the day he's been absolutely honest he's made some opinions about some things which are not which are absolutely incorrect about pieces of footage which was clearly faked and host and well known to have been uh which he said oh i believe this is real and that's just because he's you know he's nowhere he's he's no professional in that you know he's not professional right across the whole board so he's going to make mistakes yeah understandable and it is just simply a mistake but i do believe his sincerity to what he's been doing is absolute i think he's just being used though by other people sometimes uh
Tyler:
[2:34:37] Yeah i remember it was a couple of years ago when the the u.s government had the press conference where some of the pilots that had experienced things were talking in front of Congress and giving their reports and everything. And I was sitting in, I was in Denmark and my boss had it on this big TV and he was all excited and everything. And of course he should be. And Tom DeLonge was there and he's watching it.
Steve:
[2:35:00] He's like, what do you think? What do you think?
Tyler:
[2:35:01] You know, if you've been in the air force, everybody thinks that, you know, stuff you don't, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I mean, what I do know is what a false flag operation it looks like and oh yeah yeah that's that that is my uh honest opinion of what's going on with that entire operation that that is a false flag that is there's.
Steve:
[2:35:19] A lot there's a lot of that yeah there's so many so much of that time i mean If we take in consideration the stealth fighter, the F-117A Nighthawk, which is his original name, manufactured and flown by Lockheed in 1973 and 74 popularly, out of the sight of, you know, it was over military facilities and military grounds where people just wouldn't, the general public wouldn't see it. Now staff the starfighter was an incredible aircraft um it was it's super fast i mean it outruns the you know the stealth fighter easily but the stealth fighting regarding its maneuverability and its invisibility to radar systems is a big issue now the starfighter pilots repeated against this unknowingly in 1974 the star starfighter pilots went oh my god what is this they didn't even know. They wasn't told that this thing, these, you know, the Nighthawks were going to turn up. They just did. And it's like when you're in the army, I suppose, and the military, and you go on a 12-mile hike through a forest, and Company B jumps out on you. You're not going to get told, they are, because they want a live scenario. They want to see how you deal with it. That's the same thing for the pilots. Now, myself and Barry were the first ones to come forward
Steve:
[2:36:46] To talk about the tic-tac phenomena and we believe the tic-tac phenomena is American defense engineered it's advanced technology we were the first ones to come forward through things we knew to be honest, let's just say that and we We had to, we got punished for saying that because it's in no way, no way. It's that and the other, you know, it's fine. Okay. And raised eyebrows and, you know, but we just thought all we can do now is just sit and wait and let it unfold. And where we are currently now is that we have six military people, well-established, high-ranking military people are saying that this is defense contract technology, the TIC-TAC. And that the pilots were petered against them on purpose. That's why they were told not to fire upon them. That's why only 45 minutes later or something like that, that the people turned up on the aircraft carriers to remove all the data. That's why they didn't tell the pilots not to talk about it, like they always have done when it's a true phenomenon in the past. They wanted it out. And the pilots are going to scream UFO, aren't they? Because pilots become naive to think that they know it all. Now, I'm lucky enough to have a relative. Pilot stands for poor intelligence,
Tyler:
[2:38:11] Lots of training.
Steve:
[2:38:13] Well, it's true, and I don't blame them because I have a relative in my family who was a Top Gun trainer. He was a trainer for a while in Top Gun, and he knew about certain things, but like I say, he said look just pilots don't think that we we know it all sometimes there's things going on and we don't know we just don't tell us and uh now even at pentagon level we've got uh people who are being invited into closed room skiff meetings with arrow the pentagon ufo program and being told that the tic-tac is American defense advanced technology. Um, now the advanced technology drones is not just open for the U S it's the same for Russia and the same for China. Um, they've got them and they've been utilizing them for a long time. And, uh, we have reports even from Israel. Now, if you look through Israeli documents regarding UFOs, they are no stranger to the word UFOs. They use it. They say, oh, UFOs or UFOs were found and they were seen with scrambled jets, da, da, da, da, da. But some interesting reports turn up when you start to read them that say these pill-shaped
Steve:
[2:39:34] Craft or drones as they call them pill-shaped drones were over their military facilities they scrambled jets these things just dart off they cannot catch them it's a waste of time really scrambling jets but it's the only way to get them out the area but they didn't call them ufos in the reports they said american cia drones that's what they called them and i thought that's interesting why would they do that i mean they're not you know they don't normally do that they call them ufos you know but no american cia drones pill-shaped drones so we got to consider the possibility that we do and have
Steve:
[2:40:16] Been flying these objects around, can do me anywhere now because anybody's only going to say UFO and they've done a good job. Nobody's going to look up in the sky and say, you know, it's illegal flights of exotic military aircraft which have been test flown over facilities and civilian areas, you know, disrupting airports in some cases. Because they're just going to say UFO and that's the dead of the story, it ends.
Steve:
[2:40:40] But I do believe that they've got a lot of technology out there where it's easily misidentified and misconstrued to be the phenomena when in fact it isn't and if you start to get into the the the situation of the drones that have been taking place since late last year to early this year and into even into this month the beginning of march especially in new jersey i mean i've been researching that heavily and talking with a lot of people and i can only assume that they were both not only the phenomena was present in the skies but the way to deal with that was to have their stuff up there as well so that the faa can turn around and say well these things were okay there was no problem where they they were initiated they obviously must be american so therefore it's all american which dilutes the originality that there was phenomena in the skies you know so it's a very problematic thing at the moment it's a mix up of what is ours what is theirs it causes mass mass confusion and they create these things to look absurd and that's exactly what jack valet said you know creating things that look absurd creates absurdity that you cannot readily identify it as something that you know to be flying in the sky so and i think then we've got a bit of They're both going on over that period of time.
Tyler:
[2:42:04] I think that people don't understand how radar works. And it's one of those fun words that gets thrown around to the same way when you watch a science fiction movie and they just say a vaguely scientific sounding term, knowing that the audience doesn't know what it means. And they just use that to explain it. And then the audience just goes like,
Tyler:
[2:42:22] oh, yeah, OK, of course, that proves it. But like if you're flying at 300 knots which is the cruising speed of an f18 over the ocean at let's just say 20 000 feet above sea level.
Tyler:
[2:42:36] And you observe something without visual sight, like you see it on a radar. And I'm not saying that they're completely inaccurate. I'm saying it's important to understand how a radar actually functions. It shoots in a straight line, a beam of light energy, and then it returns. And if something is moving in a curve or something's moving perpendicular to the radar, as opposed to straight towards the radar, you can get very, very different readings. You could see it move and not be able to calculate its actual movement speed. Uh because if it's moving at an angle to the radar it's it's not going to be if i shoot a beam at it and it comes right back and then it's moved significantly closer to me in a straight line and i've shot another beam at it now i can calculate its movement speed if it's going down or up that's a far more difficult math problem to solve well.
Steve:
[2:43:36] I'm so glad tyler you're actually saying this because not many people get to hear it but you're absolutely right i mean i did a stent working as a contractor for NATO in communications. I tell you, there are numerous different ways of utilizing radar systems from the old Doppler through to Microwave and others, and some aren't in a public domain now yet. But what I can say is, you know, when they're utilizing forward infrared-looking cameras on their aircraft,
Steve:
[2:44:05] You know, we've got to take into consideration sometimes we're just seeing the heat disperse around something. Not the object, but the heat around it, which can be various shapes of heat. The heat can extend quite far in certain shapes and order. Not necessarily is the craft in that shape, you know, whatever it be.
Steve:
[2:44:24] But, I mean, you know, when they first released three pieces of footage to the Pentagon, the GoFast, the Gimbal, and the Tic Tac.
Steve:
[2:44:32] Now the go fast which is the aircraft looking down uh on trying to track a a what is assumed to be a fast moving object over the sea and you can hear the pilot saying we got it we got it um that's actually been pulled now by the pentagon which they believe that is as a rational explanation so you can you know don't look at that one to be anything unusual that's interesting all of a sudden after so long it's suddenly been pulled um but the other two still stand in but the the process of that is because considering it looks to be moving very fast that's why they call it to go fast but in fact it's not going very fast you know i mean even when you look at the the tic tac one you know it is it's like well it's going 180 knots against the wind well big deal I mean,
Steve:
[2:45:23] What's 180 knots against the wind? A small aircraft can do that. You know, it's not exactly significant, but it was emphasized. But one of the biggest problems we have is the Pentagon did confirm that the videos were authentic, but it's all what's not there in writing is that the audio is authentic, and there were some discrepancies regarding the audio on certainly one or two, well, definitely one of these videos where the pilots are screaming, yeah, hey, we got it, da-da-da. You know, pilots don't act like that. You know, the things are recorded.
Steve:
[2:46:03] Sometimes they're listened to by higher-ranking officers or even at the time. There's a procedure, I know that procedure because I have a relative who was in the Top Gun and told me the process of how that report would go. You wouldn't have two pilots saying, hey, dude, and this, that, and the other. You know, you see, it was a bit, you know. But the Pentagon turned around and said, the videos are authentic.
Steve:
[2:46:28] Yeah, it's no missus that, well, they didn't say the audio was. And, of course, it's very, very questionable. Now, one of the voices was matched up to another voice in another video, which shouldn't have been a pilot flying that aircraft. So, of course, there is some problems here regarding the questionality of, you know, the authenticity of some of the audio. I believe the videos are authentic no matter what they're recording. But there are problems and we continue to have those issues um you know seeing pieces of video footage i mean you know i mean if you want to talk about the jellyfish ufo is nothing more than a bunch of balloons as far as i'm concerned and it's a bunch of balloons that's the way the radar works and the filming on those military balloons which are about 300 feet up and tethered and that particular type of camera that they use shows the heat reflection on if you're utilising, if you're filming balloons which are metallic
Steve:
[2:47:36] Or silver or whatever, reflective, then you're going to get a disperse of reflection across and it's going to affect across the infrared. And then there were stories, oh yes, it went off into the ocean and I pulled that and I said, look, put it out there, I said, No way, no way did this suddenly descend into water and then come out again. And he said, oh, we've got the video footage. I've seen the footage. I'm going to release the footage. Never happened. Never happened. The person that came forward initially, the military officer who filmed it, was featured on one of the news channels in his initial first interview, saying basically he thought it was a bunch of balloons traversing across the base.
Steve:
[2:48:17] And no mention to the water or anything going into the water or anything like that. And then, unfortunately, a number of researchers get old of this guy and he changes his testimony to say, oh, yes, it went into water. So, you know, we're constantly hitting our head against the wall. That's that top level, that stuff that is linked into, you know, some of the guys that are going to these hearings and stuff. And you think to yourself, you know, if you can't even trust at that level, what can you, to be honest with you? And I think it goes all the way up, to be honest with you. I think even when it comes to, you know, the hearings and Pentagon and stuff, I do think that there are certain narratives and certain ways of saying things, you know, um, which might lead you into a certain way away from the truth, to be honest with you. So, um, You know, our people kept asking me, are we going to get disclosure? Are we going to get disclosure? And I said, well, you know what? We may be living in a form of disclosure for a long time, certainly since the Brookings Institute did a report for NASA when they started going to the moon and that, you know, in case you found anything of extraterrestrial and origin,
Steve:
[2:49:25] The Brookings Institute said to them, this very important paragraph, said, no, you should not tell the public. But most importantly, they also said, but you must prepare public and hasn't it been done the subject of UFOs and aliens is everywhere now in everybody's minds from children watching cartoons to films
Steve:
[2:49:48] To food names even certain branding it's everywhere you can't get away from it so they've done a good job there when people see a UFO now you know they kind of go oh yeah look at that that was interesting tell a few friends tell a few of the family and that's the dead story there doesn't come to us doesn't get out You know, they've done a great job. And, um, and like I say, that is a form of disclosure just to, you know, the acceptance and understanding that, you know, UFOs and aliens in their, in their mindset. And when people see things, sometimes they just afterwards, they kind of shrug the shoulders and say, okay, all right, well, that was interesting. And what are we going to have for dinner tonight? You know, so that's kind of the situation. They've done a good job. But when you talk about hard line, you know, our fellow Americans, we, we, they are here sort of thing. Not going to happen. I just don't think it's going to happen. No matter how many hearings we're going to have, I think that it's easier to come up with a bigger lie to cover over the smaller lie, which seems to be systematically been taking place for many years. I just don't know. Something will have to force the issue, and I don't think it's down to that. I think it's down to them. I think the phenomenon itself can only force the issue to disclosure. I just don't think we'll ever pry it out from the US government, to be honest with you.
Tyler:
[2:51:05] Yeah, it's, I mean, as of the day that we were recording this, this is the 20th of March, 2025. I mean, yesterday the CIA headquarters were, you know, surrounded by police and SWAT, and the Kennedy papers have come out. People have their opinions about what the two may mean together, if anything.
Tyler:
[2:51:27] But I don't know if we're ever going to get, like, full disclosure. We're going to get nuggets when it's convenient.
Steve:
[2:51:34] Well it's so easy to put national security stamps on stuff that's the problem yeah whoever made that up you know because if you don't want it out all they do is report national security they don't tell you what the national security is for they'll just redact it right so you end up with a piece of paper and it's mostly redacted as i'm sorry we couldn't share that information with you because of national security well what national security oh i'm sorry but we can't tell you that because that would be really relinquishing the national security act you know it's like oh well that's it then bang your head against the wall you're not going to get it and i think that many on many occasions you know no matter how many presidents might come in i think there's only been five presidents i think in total that may have had been clued up to some degree but you know what these are these are allotted people you know which uh you know will go through the process of being presidents they're not likely to get hold of that information especially you know how they deal with there. I could understand if they were military officers, you know, like Bush Senior, who was a head of CIA at the time and became president. You know, I could understand them having information, and maybe a few others, Eisenhower and so on. But...
Steve:
[2:52:40] You know if they're going to request things on the presidential order they're just going to get things redacted at the end of the day so i don't think you know we would get we'd only get what they want to give us and we've only got in the jfk stuff i had a look through some of the information that was released and i thought okay yeah all right yeah how's your osworld looks to be a bit of a stooge here and maybe set up yes okay well that was kind of what we kind of knew anyway is he telling us anything we didn't really suspect
Tyler:
[2:53:05] We didn't get no.
Steve:
[2:53:06] We got confirmation we got confirmation that's exactly it's not disclosure it's confirmation but even that is interesting but because so much time is passed on and people who dealt with that are not even here anymore you know it is problematic but uh and i think probably they still be redacted stuff to be honest or you just don't release information that you think you got it all and you just tell us that you've got it and that's the world we live in unfortunately and if you think something about the ufo phenomenon which i like to call it ufo because uap is just i don't know it's just changing the narrative name forget the last 78 years you've done it exists you know and i think to myself we're dealing with something here which is like you know it's like the atom bomb on steroids in regarding secrecy and we think that we're just going to get given it you know there's a lot of accountability over the last 78 years to stand up for including people that may have been taken out because they shouldn't have known or they saw something or been in the wrong place or they weren't playing the government game either way you know it's so difficult to have what might we refer to as that grand disclosure because the complications are so severe i think
Tyler:
[2:54:18] I uh i have one more uh patreon supporter that wrote in a question for you and i think we'll wrap this up but this has been great um i'll try to paraphrase because it's quite a long paragraph he's written here but, You have worked on untold amounts of documentary films and with directors and such. And he makes the observation that usually the documentaries start off with the more factual information. And then somewhere in the middle to the later parts of the film, they start bringing in the more fantastical eyewitness statements. And it complicates the story and it makes it harder to believe. But you're almost like preconditioned by.
Steve:
[2:54:58] Starting off with
Tyler:
[2:54:59] The hard stuff to assume everything else you're seeing is the same yes and he wants to know if you've noticed this and if this is some kind of disinformation attempt or is it just and.
Steve:
[2:55:12] No it's not disinformation um the problem with getting a hold of material these days is not always easy especially getting information from people um however i do know how the how it all works in mcgarden these are the situation of grabbers what i would refer to as grabbers these are the the vital parts of the story which are the most significant which you get to see first you know because it's about hooking your audience everything's about entertainment it's about hooking your audience and keeping them viewing as long as you possibly can not just like youtube it's the same for television no difference you know i mean you can you can actually check now you know what people are watching and get statistics so it's about grabbing them so they're going to put the good stuff all there and then as we filter through the tv show yes you are going to get the more fantastical things things which you start thumbing man yeah i don't know about that one you know and it's it does spoil it to be honest with you however material is thin um and they it's hard to put it to get so many hours of stuff together because you know not everybody plays the game in with each other and of course at the same time You want to make something entertaining...
Steve:
[2:56:21] By putting some factual things in. So you meet every criteria for the entertainment side, from the factual side, from the science side. You know, it's problematic making TV shows now because isn't it really becoming exhausted? How many, if I see another documentary on Roswell, I'm going to hang myself. I'm just going to tell you. I've just had enough. You know, or Rendlesham, Forrest UFO incident in the UK. You don't, look, they've done the time. We need to move on. You know, the subject is moving on. So where's all the TV? Where's all the new stuff? Well, this is the problem you see, and it doesn't filter through very fast. So they end up the regurgitation process because everybody wants to make money
Steve:
[2:56:59] on a subject, which is fascinating and has value and high views. But at the same time, this is why you end up with so many lousy paranormal UFO TV shows.
Steve:
[2:57:08] And it's a shame, but I do know, and I recognize it so often. In fact, when I do a lot of TV shows myself, I try to find out, you know, as much as I can possibly can about what's preceding me what's before me where you're putting me you know how do you how are you going to edit me in because you don't know they can do things in a certain manner it doesn't look great for you and you get annoyed afterwards you know and that's happened a few times you get stung by it because it's a lousy edit um but i try and stick to more factual things like national geographic discovery channel i did the unexplained with william shatner and i've done you won't find me on ancient aliens you know this is why people have asked i can't believe why how come you're not on ancient aliens except for good reason you know so prometheus productions it's just the same prometheus productions for skinwalker ranch and a number of other shows so i know how people work and i know these guys um but i'm very choosy about the work i do um because it's about putting good data together and uh and unfortunately you know there's a lot of tv shows out there look good to begin with and then you think afterwards oh god you know i'm out three quarters of that i could have done without and that's a shame really you know it does happen though but it's entertainment that's what it that's what they're trying to do achieve make money from content that are putting out for viewership thank
Tyler:
[2:58:29] You and uh i really really appreciate you being so generous with your time uh.
Steve:
[2:58:33] You're welcome tyler yeah i enjoyed it i will uh
Tyler:
[2:58:36] Reach sometime let's say may time frame once i see that you guys.
Steve:
[2:58:40] Have uh briefed
Tyler:
[2:58:41] All your followers and maybe i'll be in there.
Steve:
[2:58:44] By that point in time we do have some really good information to share and i'm sure barry's got a mountain of stuff um but we do have an event uh we do have this thing happening on may the 17th over here in the uk um but once that's uh once that done with i think there'll be a lot more to share incredible stuff that we've it's been discovered to be honest and and Barry's the creator himself in regarding the discoveries and stuff. So it would certainly be good to come back and share that with the audience, absolutely.
Tyler:
[2:59:14] Thank you so much, Steve.
Music:
[2:59:17] Music
Tyler:
[2:59:30] Wow. Thank you so much to Steve Mara for coming on the podcast and to Barry Fitzgerald for making the recommendation and the connection and everything. If you haven't already heard our interview with Barry Fitzgerald, I definitely recommend you do so. It's just a couple of weeks back in the log. And I want to thank all of the people who have helped make this happen, our Patreon supporters. Y'all rule. Seriously. like oh my god I can't believe we've made it this far it's been over since 2019 January 2019 so going on six years, of doing this thing and look how far we've gone, and a lot of that is to do with y'all I also thank everybody at In The Keep, whether that be the game studio productions.
Tyler:
[3:00:22] People who have just helped with the community in general you're amazing if you would like to support this show you can inthekeep.com support tab, there's Patreon of course that's definitely preferred but there are lots of other ways you can make donations, I think you can do the buy me a coffee thing you can buy me a book that's always on the table I love books and if you haven't noticed already all of our articles that I'm posting they have book recommendations in them so that if you want to buy one, that we talk about during the show. It's there. As well as show notes, full transcripts, a little bit more about our guests, whatever you need. I love you. God love you. Stay in the keep.
